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19
SENATE SPEECH - CARBON POLLUTION REDUCTION SCHEME

Right through this debate on the Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme Bill 2009 [No. 2] and related bills, and from listening to my colleagues speak, it has been quite clear to me that this is not an issue that divides the coalition. It is not a National Party-Liberal Party issue or a National Party-Liberal Party-Independents issue, or a National Party-Liberal Party-Greens issue. This is a debate about whether a policy can bring about the outcome that the government prescribe. What the government prescribe is that this is going to have an effect in changing global warming. That is the premise of their argument.

Let us just look at the clear premise of that argument. Will the emissions trading scheme, the Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme, do anything to change the temperature of the globe? The answer is: categorically, no. I have to refer to the illustrious members of the fourth estate. Whenever you put forward this conjecture—that this legislation is going to have no effect—you may be referred to as being from the alumni of the university of east bum crack. This is all part of the peculiar process that is used at times to ridicule the self-evident argument. I acknowledge that there are people within the Labor Party who are as fervently against this ETS as any person on this side of the chamber but every time this debate moves to a position of dealing with the substance of the legislation and its capacity to bring about an effect, people move it into the rhetorical shrill of cataclysmic events. Even today we have heard that South Australia will fry. We have heard about extinction of species. We have heard that you do not have to bother going to the coast because the coast is coming to you. All these cataclysmic metaphors get rolled up and rolled up.
 
Even if you believe in global warming chapter and verse then you must ask the fundamental question: will this policy from two chambers in the nation of Australia change any of that? No, it will not—not one iota, not one jot. So what we really have here is a conceited belief that the unilateral actions of one nation within the globe are going to make a complete change in the dynamism of global politics. If that was the case you would start to see signs of it now. APEC fell flat on its face; it completely and utterly fell over. The whole 200-page Copenhagen agreement has now become—we do not really know—a 15-page or eight-page media release. This does not give a good warrant or premise that Mr Rudd is actually affecting global politics. In fact, it shows quite clearly that he is irrelevant to global politics. The only premise on which we should go forward on this is that somehow it would have a political global effect, but that just has not been seen; it is not there.
Let’s go through it. Will sea-level rises be affected by the emissions trading scheme? Even if you believe everything about the global warming debate, the answer is: categorically, no. Will species extinction be exacerbated if Australia does not take on the ETS? Categorically, no. Will polar icecaps melt if Australia does or does not takes on the ETS? There is no relationship whatsoever. Will the droughts of southern Australia be brought to a conclusion or extended by anything Australia does with the ETS? The answer is: no.
 
It has become a religious debate, not a debate about science, because every time you move into the science around whether this ETS will have an effect then straight away you are moved to the religious metaphors of damnation, cataclysmic events and another realm of Dante’s Inferno that is apparently prescribed for those who dare question the tenets of the Labor Party’s position on the Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme. And now this new alternative form of religion, with its chapter and its ecclesiastical appeal, is now being prescribed by such wondrous lights as Clive Hamilton. People like him are now issuing forth the fervent endorsement of Labor policy. Is that what we want? Is that the gentleman who we are now going to fall into line with?
 
A tax does not inspire anything except tax avoidance. I can tell you that as an accountant. I am just looking at this through economic eyes, without looking at the science. A tax inspires nothing but tax avoidance. Man did not develop the wheel because someone developed a tax on walking. It was not a tax on equine species that led to the development of the automobile. There is nothing that I have seen in the history of mankind where taxes inspired anything except tax avoidance. We had an example today of a half-billion dollar hole, basically by reason of tax evasion. It is brilliant. You just cannot hold the world back when people decide that they can avoid tax. But the way you can avoid this tax is quite simple: you leave Australia. That is how you could avoid this tax. Avoid Australia and you avoid the tax.
 
If you want to inspire innovation and take your nation forward, if you want to be a clever nation that, as the Prime Minister says, makes things, you had better make something a little bit more inspiring than a new tax. On the global stage will be the Scandinavians who developed Nokia, nuclear physicists, Silicon Valley, the Japanese manufacturing miracle and the development of China. What will Australia take to this table? What we have developed for the world, the way we are taking it forward, is a new tax—a whole new bureaucracy, a whole new swathe of tin gods, marauding across the countryside and putting their paws into every corner
of people’s lives.
 
This new tax collects, even on the government’s rudimentary figures—and they are pretty rudimentary—$70.2 billion in the first six years. That kind of money does not grow on trees. Somebody somewhere will have to pay. That money will have to come from somewhere. The people who will pay will ultimately be those who cannot move that cost on. In the lingua franca of recent times, those people who cannot pass the cost on have been given a name. They are called working families. Working families cannot pass that cost on. They are the bunny at the end who will wear the cost. I hear the protestations of such people as Senator McEwen, who says that South Australia will fry. I cannot understand how turning off a pensioner’s air conditioner is solving the problem. I have not quite worked that one out. If the problem is heat, having no air conditioner is hardly the solution. This is the subject that the Labor Party avoids. They do not want to go into this prickle patch of who will pay.
 
The delivery of this tax is insidious, because it is a static tax. They do not have to prove profit to make you pay the tax. All they have to prove is that you exist. If you exist, you pay. How are you going to pay? The delivery mechanism of this tax will be associated with every corner of the house—every power point is a mechanism of revenue-raising for the government. How mad it is: if you fly to Cairns you pay the tax, but if you fly to Fiji you do not. That is a simple decision to make in a market based economy: fly to Fiji. We have devised a tax that is like the reintroduction of tariff barriers, but the only people who pay are Australians. The rest of the world do not. It is just so insanely illogical.
 
Every now and then the world goes off its head. This time, it is antipodean tulip mania, where the Australians, in our own peculiar form, have come up with this massive new tax. Basically the metaphor for this tax is going to the world and pulling our strides down while everybody else stands back and laughs at us. The world is watching us. Are the people who signed the Kyoto protocol abiding by it? No, they are not. It was marvellous to clap at Bali because it made people feel good, but then they have all gone on their merry way, and we are left with another encumbrance on our economy.
 
This tax is to inspire people to move away from the production of carbon. Unfortunately, our major export is a substance called coal, which is carbon. So we have now declared to the world that we are going to put an impost on our major export. That is a brilliant piece of economics—absolutely brilliant. We say: ‘Well, this is interesting. We’re moving away from that. Where are we going?’ And we always hear: ‘We’re going to green jobs.’ In one of the numerous Senate inquiries I have gone to, I remember asking Meghan Quinn: ‘Meghan, where are these green jobs? Can you name one?’ She said, ‘Well, what about wind farms?’ I said, ‘Have you been to a wind farm lately?’ She said, ‘Yes.’ I said, ‘How many people did you see working there?’ She said, and this is on the record: ‘Well, there was the person driving me round.’ So I asked, ‘Where else are these green jobs?’ and she answered, ‘Forestry.’ I asked, ‘Oh, have you been to a forest lately?’ She said, ‘Yes.’ I asked, ‘How many people did you see?’ She answered, ‘No-one.’ I asked, ‘Have you been to a coal mine lately?’ She said, ‘No, but I’ve seen them on television.’ That was her statement—‘I’ve seen them on television’! I asked, ‘Did you see many people working there?’ She answered, ‘Quite a few.’
 
You do not have to be Sigmund Freud to work this one out. If you want your economy to be like paths around duck ponds and new wondrous factories producing wind chimes in Nimbin then that is all right. If you want to turn yourself into a nation that takes in one another’s washing, that is fine. But you will be broke. You will be stone motherless broke. You can do that. It is possible to turn the place upside down and create a bureaucratic disaster, a new example of mankind coming up with a wondrous idea that only brings affliction.
 
A relevant question to ask is: what are the alternatives? There are numerous alternatives. There is a whole range of alternatives. We can look at such things as nuclear. We have to get our mind around the corner from 1954, start looking at where we are in the year of our Lord 2009 and start looking at nuclear. There are biofuels and rail. If you want a carbon-efficient investment allowance, transfer over time to gas. The Labor Party is inspiring a juncture where everything that was planned before becomes meaningless afterwards. The Labor Party have, by the deft hand of legislation, completely changed the tack of the economy. It just brings things unstuck. It brings capital projects unstuck.
 
Who are the people who want an emissions trading scheme? Quite obviously, the traders want a trading scheme. If we go back to the numbers, in the first year we have about $4 billion in permits going out, then there is $12.99 billion in permits going out—that is about $17 billion worth of permits. If you got a one per cent commission, you would have $170 million. If you had 1½ per cent—I suppose it would have to be 85 on that—it would be $225 million on one trade. In banking, if you churn that—and you could churn it three or four times a day—three or four times a year, we are looking at up to a billion dollars on commission, just on that. There are a lot of good reasons, there are billion-dollar reasons, to have a trading scheme if you are a trader.
 
I went into one of the banks the other day because I was fascinated. I had been labelled a Neanderthal, a redneck and a profligate student from the university of east bum-crack. If you do not agree with the University of Sydney or Annabel Crabb, you are in trouble. As I walked in the door of one illustrious institutions in Sydney—and they are marvellous people—I did not get an aura of environmental consciousness. I was looking around at the good men and women working in that institution and none of them seemed to be talking about the environment or panda bears or other things. They were talking about going to the pub, buying new cars and houses, and everything else available to them in life. I was told by those close to the executive that this was all about the environment; it was their conscience that was driving them down this path. In pursuing the question with them I said, ‘How much are you going to make?’ They said, ‘We have not calculated it.’ I said, ‘Don’t lie to me, how much are you going to make?’ Finally it was blurted out across the table, ‘A substantial amount of money.’ That is a substantially good reason to pursue an emissions trading scheme!
 
We are in this peculiar position after weeks of negotiations. I am very worried that this parliament and this Senate are getting themselves into a position of wedge politics. With a very tight time frame we have to make the most major decision in the economic direction of this nation—without a shadow of a doubt. The position of prudence and stewardship we hold in this chamber says that we should give that decision on how we vote the utmost sense of import. I am very much encouraged, when I listen to the speeches in this chamber, that all of a sudden people have picked up on this and have started to become discerning and really clinical in their assessment of this legislation.
 
It is humbling to see the Senate, once more, kick back into gear and do what it is supposed to do and say, ‘Is this good for my nation? Have these people proven their case? Does this warrant my vote?’ Your vote will change the direction of this nation. Each senator, and I know some are back in their rooms watching this debate at the moment, knows that their vote really is going to change the direction of the nation—it really is. More than anything else they ever do, this vote will change the direction of our nation and where it goes. Once this tax is in place it becomes set and virtually impossible to remove.
 
I warn you, though, that not far away from the time the Labor Party brings in this tax there will be a thing called an election. The election is a great mechanism that will make this issue not stop—it will continue. There is no way on earth people are going to be negligent in their duty to protect this nation from what is a ridiculous proposition. They will not be making up their minds based on what happens next week. It will be pursued and every time there is an amendment to a regulation it will back in this chamber.
 
There is only one question that people need to ask as they go forward with this vote, and that is this: what is the Labor government proposing to do? It is proposing to change the climate of the globe. That is exactly their metaphor. If it is not, tell me what your metaphor is. Your metaphor is that you are going to change the temperature of the globe. That is better than King Canute, but good luck! How are you going to do it? And this is where it goes to bathos: the Labor government is going to change the temperature of the globe with a new tax! With all the other things that could have been done, your remedy, your pill, for the wondrous cataclysmic events that have been described by a retinue of doomsayers walking into the chamber one after the other and outlining the next global affliction, is to introduce a massive new tax. Well, you have not won that argument. Not one of your senators, not one of your government representatives or your minister, has been able to clearly spell out how this tax changes the temperature of the globe. So I ask you, ‘How does this tax change the temperature of the globe?’ You show me how it does it. You have merely days to do so. If you cannot describe how this tax changes the temperature of the globe then there is only one thing that we must do, and that is we must take in the overwhelming sense that it will be disastrous for our economy. It will be an affliction on our economy. It will change the direction and the lives of working families across this nation. It is the working families who pay for the conceit of Kevin Rudd.
 
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# rloader
Thursday, November 19, 2009 4:21 PM
I hope on this very important matter Barnaby that the Senators who have to make this momentous decision did you the courtesy of remaining in the Chamber and actually listening to your speech. Whenever I watch Parliamentary sittings the chamber is very empty except when PM Rudd and his Ministers are there. Do they all walk out when a Conservative Senator is speaking? Barnaby, I really hope that everyone reads this speech (via e-mail) via the newspaper, via Video and any means possible as it is obvious that we, the people, are being fed a lot of hysterical "spin" and lies by Senator Wong and PM Rudd and the left wing media. Also I am very doubtful of Malcom Turnbull and some of his Liberals. Have they even read the proposed Treaty?
# Liz Jackson
Thursday, November 19, 2009 4:54 PM
I have a question - did we not have an ice-age? If the earth was once covered in ice, then for it to now not be covered in ice then the earth must be warming up. At what temperature did we start to take the blame for this? What is "normal" temperature?

By the way, Mr Joyce, how do we stop our Governments wasting so much money where it is not needed. I heard of a school which had its perfectly good toilet block renovated. The result was a heap of money allocated to unqualified people who botched a simple job which the Principal went on tv saying they never needed in the first place. Also, Queensland's Premier is acting like a kid with a million dollars and a big stick, taking over the lolly shop.
Thursday, November 19, 2009 4:56 PM
If I may say so, very good content and you have covered most of the main points. I just hope that you have a real audience which hears your important messages and realizes that Rudd, Wong et al are telling barefaced lies, in Rudd's case (I presume) in his pursuit of personal recognition, regardless of whether that is at the expense of the Australian Public. May I
urge that you broadccast your speech as far and as wide as may be possible, and at the same time hope (pray) that your message will be well heard: Likewise that the so-called 'sceptic' Scientists will be heard, and that they too will press the matter to the extent that ethics allow. (Stay with ethics on our side, even if Rudd has none!)

All the very best and wishing well to your endeavours.
Campbell Swift
# Jason
Thursday, November 19, 2009 7:15 PM
Well written and extremely informative, im glad that there are politicians out there still looking out for us every day australians.
Someone needs to wake this current government up and show them that climate change from CO2 does not exist, THere is more then enough HARD science out there that confirms this.
The minister penny wong needs to go as her made up position is a waste of australian tax payers money.
Global warming is fake, so why do we need a minister for global warming......
Ive asked all my friends to sign Mr joyces petition against the ETS as we do need to show that the average australian does not support this rediculous scheme.
# Robert Edwards
Thursday, November 19, 2009 7:39 PM
Great heads up Barnaby.. keep the pressure on for the no vote. A moment of great importance to the nation has arrived/.
# Clem ROOK
Thursday, November 19, 2009 7:40 PM
Dear Barnaby,
I have always had an aversion for paying more taxes than I can afford, but with the Carbon Trading thing there is a lot of Bs mixed up with the dust - just to confuse and obfuscate- the debate.
As a scientific person - fully processed sausage with BSc makings I have been looking for the "evidence". There is no smoking gun, not even gunshot residue and that was perplexing. however I was referred to a website in the USA West Coast, worked up by dudes in white coats that speak to me in the language of my youth - pure CHEMISTRY. The agument is a little dry for those not gifted with this language, but the graphs are pretty and THEY TELL A DIFFERENT STORY about the global warming story and this report buckets the entire global warming/climate change as being trite rubbish.
For your information the site is www.petitionproject.org.
For any scientific person it is a must read!!!
Regards
Clem ROOK
# lindsay phillips
Thursday, November 19, 2009 9:14 PM
First, please let me offer a very sincere apology that this is not significantly briefer. Or, to paraphrase the classics, "briefness is next to godliness"! I hope however that you will overlook this error given the huge import of the matter.

Having said this, I earnestly ask that if you may need to come back to this later in the day, please do so as its simply far too important to 'hastily delete'.

Just a quick glance below and you will notice that this relates to Australia's proposed E.T.S. legislation - however, I need to get one thing straight right from the very outset.

For literally two decades I have had an extremely high level of commitment to this concept - and all it entails. Just a few eg's. of this are as follows:--
• I helped lead a push in young liberals in early '80's to stop the Franklin Dam;
• I was a campaigner and fundraiser for The Wilderness Society in early '90's campaigns to help save Fraser Island and Cape York (along with school-friend and Aboriginal Spokesperson, Noel Pearson);
• In the last couple of years I have been a member of the Karawatha Forest Protection Society; and
• All this time I have enjoyed participating in a sport which leaves a very small 'carbon foot-print' (pardon the pun) of running ultra-marathons.

… Consequently it's with a huge amount of disappointment that I now realise the cause I only recently believed in, is little more than a 'Trojan Horse' for people who (knowingly or un-knowingly) are seeking to enforce literally a …

'Tsunami-sized' destruction of Australia's economy!!
I.e. it's likely that our unemployment would 'sky-rocket' to between 10-20% in just a few months, sending
our country's economy into a 'tail-spin' - probably worse than the 1930's depression!

I'm pretty confident in saying; "You would have no hesitation in agreeing with me on the following generalisation!" …

A large number of members of fundamentalist Christian groups have strongly believed, for decades, in the literal writings of Genesis, i.e. that the Earth is only approx. 4100 years old. Further, these same people would have extreme difficulty in reconciling their views with the huge number of dinosaur fossils found approx. 110 km. from Winton (Lark Quarry), over the last 10-15 years!! Esp. given most of the fossils are approx. 95 million years old!! **1

As you can clearly see, it's possible for a large group of people to be very wrong for very long periods of time. (Not to mention the frequently overlooked fact that Hitler was originally democratically elected, in the early-1930's.)

With this in mind, I would passionately and urgently encourage you to consider the following list of short-comings in the current E. T. S. (Emissions Trading Scheme) hysteria.:--

1. There have been many key dates, esp. in the last one to five months, when large cracks have begun to appear in …
"THE MOST UN-SCIENTIFIC STATEMENT OF THE 21st CENTURY!!
I.E. 'THE SCIENCE IS SETTLED’!!" Just a few of these are as follows …
• Oct. '07: The universal credibility of Al Gore's 'An Inconvenient Truth' was significantly reduced two years ago last month. Just two days prior to Al Gore winning the Nobel Peace Prize, a British High Court Judge, Judge Michael Burton, ruled errors had arisen "in the context of alarmism and exaggeration". There were nine errors in total. This was a case initiated by Stewart Dimmock, a Kent school governor (who's also a parent).**2
• Dec. '08: The credibility of the IPCC. was similarly reduced one year ago next month when, "Over 650 dissenting scientists from around the globe challenged man-made global warming claims made by the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change … in a 231 page (U.S.) Senate Minority Report." **3
• Jul. '09: The editor of the American Chemical Society newsletter, Rudy Baum, was almost universally rebuked by the society's members for saying, in the prior month's editorial, "the science of anthropogenic climate change is becoming increasingly well established". "Scientists rebuked Baum's use of the word 'deniers' because 'association with Holocaust deniers'. In addition, the scientists called Baum's editorial: 'disgusting'; 'a disgrace'; 'misinformation'; and 'unworthy of a scientific periodical'." **4
• Nov. '09: New data (from Bristol University) show that the balance between the airborne and the absorbed fraction of carbon dioxide has stayed approximately constant since 1850, despite emissions of carbon dioxide having risen from about 2 billion tons a year to 35 billion tons a year (over same period)"!! **5

2. All climate change supporters ever-so-conveniently overlook the fact that many of the temperature records of the last two years have been some of the coldest on record, below are just a few eg's. …
• Jan. '08; Hong Kong had its second longest cold spell since 1885. **6
• Feb. '08; Mumbai, India had its lowest temperature recorded for 40 years, & in Reading, Pennsylvania, USA. the temp. stayed below -40C deg. for six consecutive days for 1st time since 18th century. **6
• 29 Oct. '08; the USA. beat or tied 115 low-temperature records for that date. **6
• Oct. '09; "The average Oct. temp. of 50.8 deg.F (for mainland USA.) was 4 deg.F below the 20th Century average, and ranked as the 3rd coolest…and…the three month period (Aug.-Oct.) was the coolest on record for three states: Nebraska, Kansas and Oaklahoma". (Also, New Zealand had its coldest Oct. in 64 years, 10.6 deg.C, 1.4 below avg.) **7
(This is probably the main reason why most global media references strangely 'morphed' sometime in early or late 2008 from 'global warming' to 'climate change'!!)

3. If we were to focus mainly on the 20th century, no environmentalist can successfully counter these two key points that Ian Plimer states; "If CO2 derived from modern industrialisation is the culprit for global warming, then why did the global temperature increase from 1918-40, decrease from '40-'76, increase from '76 to '98 and decrease from '98 to the present. Throughout this period, humans were adding increasing amounts of CO2 to the atmosphere." Also, "There was alarm in the 70's that the decreasing temperature was heralding another ice age. This was an important lesson from which nothing was learned." **8 After all, 'let's not let facts get in the way of a good story'!!

4. The main evidence quoted by most environment campaigners (mainly temperature records and glacial retreating distances) usually has a time-frame of approx. 100-150 years, and yet there are many other evidence sources available that date from 500-5000 years. Some of these include; upland blanket peat in southern Scotland, soil boreholes in Australia, tree rings in Tasmania and New Zealand, stalagmites in South Africa, and Vermetid coral reefs off the Sicilian coast in the Mediterranean. (Not to mention Russian ice-core records dating back over 400 000 years.) All of these more substantive time periods have much more credibility than something that is just a little more than a person's life-time in duration. **9

5. All prior episodes of the Earth heating in the last 400 000 years have PRECEDED periods of increased CO2 - as opposed to what the 'environment experts' would have us believe to be the 'norm.'. I.e. the overheating has always occurred first, and then the increased CO2 occurring there-after ... NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND! Further, "Russian research on Antarctic ice cores shows that temperature rise triggers an atmospheric CO2 rise with a lag of 500 to 600 years." **10 (So environmentalists are WRONG IN TWO EXTREMELY LARGE WAYS!! I.e. the number of years that it usually takes for one event to influence the other, and, MOST IMPORTANT OF ALL, the actual order in which they have occurred … all other times, since the ‘dawn of time’.)

I can't stress this enough.

Obviously I'm not in favour of any E.T.S. (or C.P.R.S., carbon pollution reduction scheme) that the environment campaigners are trying to ‘smother’ us all with in Canberra this month, and in Copenhagen next month. In spite of this, only a short time ago I was (as mentioned earlier), probably giving me a greater ability to fully appreciate both sides of the entire debate!! I believe this irrefutably proves that I come to this debate with ‘clean hands’!! (This is probably even more so than most life-long or long-term supporters of either extreme, who would probably find it very difficult to significantly adapt their views to take into account very recent evidence/developments, such as I’ve clearly listed above.)

However, the E.T.S. should ALWAYS be seen as totally separate to many other issues which environmentalists quite often try and attach it to. Some of these inc.:-
• Cessation of all commercial & scientific whaling, by Japan & Norway
• Continuing and increasing efforts to reduce pollution, esp. non-bio-degradable plastics
• " " " " possible extinction of fauna, esp. rhinos., tigers & gorillas
• " " " " de-forestation, esp. old growth forests & esp. in developing countries i.e. its worth noting this is most likely the main reason for reducing snow coverage on Africa's Mt. Kilamanjaro.
• Continuing efforts to recycle; glass, paper, plastics, computers, other electricals & mobiles - in order to reduce land-fill needs (aluminium, currently at approx. 80-90% recycle-rate is the only real success in this area)
• The incidence of (random) sub-terranean natural disasters; i.e. earth quakes, tsunamis & volcano eruptions.
• The high likelihood that world oil supplies will peak in the next 5-10 years, drastically increasing the need for multiple alternatives to solely petrol-powered vehicles (esp. electricity & lpg.)

In other words, passing the E.T.S. laws in no way improves any of the other above issues, and should not be seen as some sort of ‘Silver Bullet’ aka. one way of solving many ‘like-problems’ with one (very costly) step. Needless to say this is what some of the more superficial E.T.S. Supporters would like us to believe. In fact, the large reduction that would probably ensue with our balance of trade would probably mean less available funds over the medium term to address any or most of these important issues.

These are definitely a few of the most important things all of us here in Australia need to be aware of!!

1. Australia's trade with the rest of the world is very heavily biased towards coal & iron ore (not to overlook the fact that our tourism industry is heavily affected by fuel costs), so if in the coming one to two years we were to suffer trade in all these sectors to be cut by say 10-50% … it's likely that our unemployment would sky-rocket to between 10-20% in a short few months (and send our country's economy into a 'tail-spin', probably worse than the 1930's depression).

2. Please don’t be fooled by the labor party’s ‘snow job’ on our coal exports. They say it will only add less than 1% to the total export price, but conveniently neglect to mention that it will add 10-30% to the price of finished goods and services in; China, Japan and South Korea. This clearly will have an almost instant ‘domino-effect’ of reducing the demand for these goods and services, thereby reducing their sales by a similar amount, and … you guessed it … thereby reducing our export quantities and values by similar amounts.

3. If the Copenhagen Protocol (up-dates of the Kyoto and Rio Protocols) is passed, we in Australia, will sooner or later need to instigate international legal action to obtain a temporary injunction, pending the Protocol being appealed against at the United Nations there-after.

4. If the Copenhagen Protocol is deferred until a future date in 2010/11, we still need to continue to dis-credit the environmentalists' anti-progress views (unless and until they might come up with more persuasive evidence that global warming is in fact both; a problem, and, something we would actually be able to do anything about).

What can we all do??

• Please contact two, three, or even half a dozen offices of your local members of federal (or state) parliament, or senators - via phone, e-mail, regular mail or personal visit. At least one needs to be a labor member. Please request that they not pass any further E.T.S. laws in federal parliament.
• Join Climate Sceptics today. Although its $70, given the enormous stakes, it’s a very small price to pay to know you're helping to ensure Australia's future. (I myself am not joining until late November, thus giving me a fortnight or so to speak freely without being bound by any likely organisational constraints.)
• As many people as possible need to sign Senator Barnaby Joyce's on-line petition against the E.T.S. This can be accessed via Barnaby's web-site (which you can also access via LNP. or 4BC).
• Also, please please, pass this on to as many people as possible (and also ask if they could do the same) … our very future is at stake!

Any questions, queries, comments or doubtful points, please feel free to ph. and/or e-mail me asap.

I genuinely hope you'll feel even half as disturbed and eager to get E.T.S. laws jettisoned as I do!!

Thank-you very much for your time.

Very Sincerely Yours,

Lindsay Phillips.
Ph.: 3388 3087 or 0434 959 712
emails: deephil55@optusnet.com.au or Lindsay.Phillips@racq.com.au



References …
** 1, www.dinosaurtrackways.com.au
** 2, www.timesonline.co.uk (10th Oct. 2007).
** 3, www.warwickhughes.com (Dec. 2008 archive).
** 4, www.wattsupwiththat.com (July 2009 archive).
** 5, www.wattsupwiththat.com (10th Nov. 2009).
** 6, Heaven and Earth: global warming, the missing science, by Ian Plimer, Connor Court Publishing, 2009 (p. 26).
** 7, www.wattsupwiththat.com (11th Nov. 2009).
** 8, Heaven and Earth: etc., by Ian Plimer, Connor Court Publishing, 2009 (ps. 24 & 25).
** 9, Heaven and Earth: etc., by Ian Plimer, Connor Court Publishing, 2009 (ps. 79, 80 & 84).
** 10, Heaven and Earth: etc., by Ian Plimer, Connor Court Publishing, 2009 (p. 451).

For further info., please also refer to …
Courier-Mail columnist, Terry Mc Crann, 6th October, 2009; BBC, 9th October, 2009;
www.climatesceptics.com.au; www.climatescienceinternational.org; www.huffingtonpost.com; www.paulmacrae.com; &, www.lavoisier.com.au



PS. Much of the above could perhaps be broadly covered in three slightly shorter points.:--
• Many environmental campaigners seem to have what could only be kindly described as a 'God Complex by proxy' … they think that man more likely has control over our environment than our Sun - in spite of the fact that our Sun is approx. 1.4 million km. in diameter and has approx. one million times more volume that the Earth; and
• Since the falling of the Communist regimes throughout Eastern Europe in '89/'90, and the closing of the political divide between Moscow and Washington (commonly referred to as the end of the Cold War), many of the world’s environment activists have had approx. 20 years of either being in the wilderness and/or time to look for and promote a new cause.
• Many environment activists claim with ‘military precision’ and 'Swiss-watch-like' reliability most of the following …
their views are held by a large majority of the world's scientists;
there are only a few scientists who have dissenting views; and
most of these dissenters either have little relevant qualifications or have a bias due to corporate backing.
I.e. Clearly, as common sense would suggest; 'Self praise is no praise at all!'


# Simon Larrescy
Thursday, November 19, 2009 10:37 PM
Could the ETScam be a unionist GST in disguise? Also could the PMs Carbon Credits be no more than monopoly money for votes? Sorry if this is rubbish.
# JEANIE
Friday, November 20, 2009 2:06 AM
DEAR BARNABY, UNREAL SPEECH!!UR PETITION IS GROWING, GOLD COASTERS ARE TALKING ABOUT IT, EVERYWHERE I GO.....WE WILL NOT BE TAKEN FOR FOOLS....UR NAME IS SPOKEN WITH RESPECT...THANK GOD 4 YOU!!!GOLD COAST BULLETIN TODAY PRINTED YOUR STANCE...[OUR WEE REGIONAL NEWSPAPER]. PRAYERS WOULDN'T GO ASTRAY AT THIS POINT WOULD THEY? REGARDS, JEANIE
# Paul Eilich
Friday, November 20, 2009 6:32 AM
Dear David Allender and Barnaby, what a great speech. I'd like to congratulate you both for putting the sense back into this debate, keep fighting fellas we're all behind you.
# Lorikeet
Friday, November 20, 2009 7:43 AM
Hi Barnaby

Thanks for that excellent post.

I would like to remind everyone that the people who most want an ETS of the most outrageous proportions are those who also have a policy on Global Governance - The Greens. Some of the people pushing this Green ideology are from large corporations. All readers need to do is check The Greens' website.

Converting to gas sounds like a good idea and has been pushed by the State Labor government. This makes me wonder why Rudd plans to export 95% of the natural gas from the Gorgon Project to China for 6 cents a litre!

Trust me, we are being subjected to a Big Brother approach when it comes to many new taxes for Water, Electricity, Air. We are being told how to wash our clothes, how many we may wash and how much water and electricity we may consume.

There is talk of the Queensland Labor government bringing in Off Peak electricity. This means they could turn off the power of pensioners and others who are generally at home through the day between 5.30-8.30 p.m. and expect them to cook the main meal at lunch time. I can only imagine the number of accidents some elderly people might have stumbling around in the dark. This dumb idea also has the potential to "lock" them into their homes through the day, instead of going out.

You mention that new taxes inspire tax evasion, but a Carbon Tax, along with all of the other new taxes and charges also inspire poverty, which also leads to homelessness.

The federal government seems to care very little about how many people end up living on the streets due to its expansive immigration program, which doesn't seem to include provision of infrastructure - not to mention the current open invitation for boat people.

It makes no sense at all to legislate an ETS before discussions occur in Copenhagen. It seems our government has also forgotten that it has a gross foreign debt of $1.2 trillion and climbing.

It seems to me that third world nations are extremely eager to grab the proceeds of a Carbon Tax from the developed nations, if Irene Khan's address to the National Press Club this week is anything to go by. She's the General Secretary of Amnesty International and is from Bangladesh. She was definitely pushing the Copenhagen Treaty.

Yes, if the ETS is passed, the other nations will be laughing out loud at "The Stupid Country" that kicks its own people in the guts in numerous ways.

Yesterday I saw you taking Penny Wong to task in the Senate and telling her that Canada was CERTAINLY NOT agreeing to anything before Copenhagen. She tried to duck and weave, but quite unsuccessfully.

When Steve Fielding accused her in relation to stealing most of the water from the Murray Basin for her home state of SA, she couldn't even look him in the eye. I believe this was an attempt to ensure her own re-election despite the gross stupidity she is constantly pushing regarding ETS.

Yes, it is true that this has become a religious debate, which now seems to have infiltrated our churches. Some people are now finding it necessary to worship the Green Son of Satan. I can vouch for the fact that God's nemesis has now entered into the local Church of Christ.

What I find particularly frightening is that a very intelligent friend of mine, who is both an eminent scientist and a chaplain, has swallowed this stupid bloody nonsense hook, line and sinker. He now thinks scientists are capable of reducing the world's temperature, but in my experience, it is not at all uncommon to find high IQ people whose minds are trapped in destructive cultism of any/every kind.

For anyone who has read the bible, it certainly warns of a "wolf in sheep's clothing" or "anti-Christ" which will come to fool most of God's flock.

I believe this is the Green movement, which has been riding on the backs of most of our politicians for decades. Added to this, our kids have been Greened up for communism in our schools for many years, which is a significant concern.


# Lorikeet
Friday, November 20, 2009 7:53 AM
Here's something else I find interesting.

At the last census, we were asked how many bedrooms our homes contained.

I was recently told that in one of the United States, citizens have now been asked to make their spare bedroom(s) available for housing refugees. Now their government has gone one step further and is enshrining this "request" into legislation.

I think the main aim is to force elderly and single people out of their homes into one of those expensive little "cubby holes" built on a postage stamp sized piece of land (shared by others above and below), which will make corporate developers richer.

The legislation will free up housing for entire families of refugees, while the elderly get ripped off.

A person could be forgiven for thinking that patriotism is being flushed down the gurgler at every turn, both in the USA and Australia.

It is my belief that a Global Communist Government will be in place by 2020, driven there by The Greens and their ridiculous addiction to various dangerous forms of Sustainability.

The time to stop them is now, or even YESTERDAY!
# Sandy
Friday, November 20, 2009 10:48 AM
Dear Mr Joyce.
I recently heard your interview on 2GB and I applaud your strong commitment to voting against the Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme. You have enriched my very basic knowledge of this scheme like many other scheme for "saving our world from climate change". Not sure what one more person can do to have this not passed through however you have my and my husband's vote.

The issue I see is that this type of information is not out there in the mass media. Many other people like myself and my husband are time poor and it makes it difficult to voice our concerns to a wider audience. I also know many people who do not listen to talk back radio as they find it "extreme". Therefore to get your message through to a wider audience, may I suggest that you invite yourself and others who support your view to a more mass market TV channel to help all rest of Australia understand.

Regards,
Sandy
Friday, November 20, 2009 11:04 AM
Dear Barnaby: You are absolutely SPOT ON!! Thank you for all that you
are saying. Thank you for having the courage, Thank you for being there
for the Australian People. K Rudd and cohorts are ego maniacs and must
be voted out and this insidious tax proposal defeated.
Sincerely Karen Brown, Toongabbie. NSW
# Nick Barr
Friday, November 20, 2009 12:43 PM
Well said Senator. Keep up the good fight and encourage all coalition senators to keep fighting too.
# Greg Rauchle
Friday, November 20, 2009 3:53 PM
Hey everybody, here is an interesting link which exposes many of Rudd's lies. Check it out!

http://kevinruddlies.com/lies/kevin.htm
Friday, November 20, 2009 5:29 PM
Well said Senator Barnaby. I can not understad or wish to beleive there are so many airheads wthin our parliament. But I hope that they are just airheads and not shifty,crafty,deceivers intent on scamming good people for their ill gotten gain.
# Ron
Friday, November 20, 2009 9:12 PM
Hallelujah! We encourage you Barnaby! What is the secret ingredient to winning? The answer is never quitting. Quitting is never an option to a winner and Winston Churchill was such a winner. His motto - NEVER GIVE IN, NEVER GIVE IN, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER!

An amazing speech Barnaby with some excellent points made, in particular,
when you said, " Your metaphor is that you are going to change the temperature of the globe. That is better than King Canute, but good luck!"
It's also better than God because He set the universe in place and He regulates it, as evidenced by the alternating colder/warmer periods in the earth's history. That very same God also said, "Who defined the boundaries of the sea as it burst from the womb and as I clothed it with clouds and thick darkness? For I locked it behind barred gates, limiting its shores. I said, 'Thus far and no farther will you come. Here your proud waves must stop!'" He is the One who is in control of the planet and He will determine when it ends; He will not permit man, because of pride, to do His job in regulating the climate. God can be TRUSTED and that is why ETS plans or Treaties to control so-called 'global warming' are unnecessary as He is already doing just that - controlling the climate!

Praying God's strength will sustain you as you stand and continue to stand!

Shalom from Ron
# Leo Curcuruto
Friday, November 20, 2009 10:14 PM
Dear Barnaby,
Excellent speech, I just hope your side and the dumb Labor Party were listening and understood what you were saying. If Kevin Rudd wanted to reduce carbon emissions, why did he tamper with the solar panel rebate? Our cars, trucks etc produce a big portion of our pollution. Australia has a stack of natural gas which we are selling to the Chinese for peanuts. The Australian government should be encourageing car manufacturers to produce cars that run on LNG or CNC (liquified Natural Gas or Compressed Natural Gas). Sydney buses run on Natural Gas so why not cars? The reason is that big mouth Kevin wants to make you think he cares for the environment, but really he is doing nothing about it.
Australia is a big country that has the potential to produce a lot of food for the world. Instead of Peter Garrett/Kevin Rudd spending billions of dollars on home insulation, why wasn't this money used to set up infrastructure to water Australia. This would have created lots of jobs and would have had long term benefits for the nation, instead we are helping Chinese businesses produce ceiling batts. Don't forget the Labor Party is helping working class families in China not Australia. If Kevin loves China so much, he should go live there and leave us alone.
As a long time Liberal supported, I am disappointed with Malcolm Turnbull and the party. They have become as dumb as the Labor Party. Currently they have nobody who is leadership material that can serve it up to Kevin Rudd. At question time Malcolm Turnbull looks like a stunned mullet. Kevin might be hopless at everything but he is a good politician. Barnaby, I think the National Party is more in touch with the people than the Liberals, and should stop playing second fiddle to them and become a truely National party for all Australians. Think about it.
One last point, I have heard you are in favour of splitting Telstra. It was your side who sucked in hundreds of thousands of Australians to invest in Telstra, thinking it was a good investment with secure returns. All these people have now lost money because both sides of Government have allowed the ACCC to put up these brick walls in front of Telstra. Optus has reduced my landline bill from $130 per month to $49, competition is alive and well. Please reconsider your decision.
# Peter Jenkins
Saturday, November 21, 2009 12:20 AM
Well said Barnaby. As one of those "poor" South Australians having to suffer, according to Senator McEwen, the consequenses of AGW in the form of a November heat wave, I wonder how the senator would explain the above 40 deg temps in Nov. 1888, 1894, 1897, 1921, 1922, 1925, 1962, 1982, 1997. What kind of global warming caused those events? Quite frankly I'm totally fed up with Labor party Ministers and Senators treating the electorate as if we were ignorant fools. On the one hand the Labor party want to cut C02 emissions to save the planet and on the other hand Rudd wants a big Australia with 35,000,000 people by 2050. We already have water issues with 22mil., so how does this compute. More people consume more food, power and fuel etc which intern produces more C02 emissions which will produce alot of revenue through an ETS (carbon tax) but what about the emissions? I have to wonder whether Rudd actually believes in C02 driven global warming or just C02 driven taxation as his economic vision is contradictory to his enviromental rhetoric.
Is climate change real? Of course. Will the ETS have an effect on climate change.......yes but only the climate of a few bank accounts.
# Mario007
Saturday, November 21, 2009 11:59 AM
Even a conceited individual of Kevin Rudd’s calibre cannot ignore the advice of the 2 most powerful nations, China and the USA. Because this is what the representatives of those nations had to say as part of the ASEAN “Singapore Declaration”:

1. Yi Xianliang, a Chinese foreign ministry official who is part of the country's negotiating team at world climate talks, said Saturday that the 50 percent reduction target had to be omitted from the APEC declaration. "It is a very controversial issue in the world community ... if we put it in this statement, I think it would disrupt the negotiation process," he told reporters on the sidelines of APEC.


2. "There was an assessment by the leaders that it was unrealistic to expect a full, internationally legally-binding agreement to be negotiated between now and when Copenhagen starts in 22 days," US Deputy National Security Adviser Mike Froman told reporters”.

Translated within the Australian political context and national interest:

It is unrealistic (for the PM) to expect (the Coalition to agree that) a legally-binding agreement (needs) to be negotiated between now and when Copenhagen starts".

Would Kevin Rudd or/and Malcolm Turnbull care to present a logical argument against this advice from our main trade partners? (No spin allowed!!)

# JEANIE
Saturday, November 21, 2009 12:32 PM
DEAR BARNABY, WHILST I AM WITH YOU 100% ON E.T.S., THIS WEEK WILL BE, I BELIEVE, BE THE FINAL SITTING OF PARLIAMENT THIS YEAR......I HAVE A PERSONAL PLEA TO YOU AND OUR NATIONAL TEAM, TO PLEASE PLEASE, PUT HEALTH ISSUES FIRMLY BACK ON THE AGENDA.....ONCE B.S. COPENGAGEN IS OVER....THE TRUE DIRE STATE OF OUR HOSPITALS, CITY AND COUNTRY , IN QUEENSLAND, ARE IN A STATE OF TOTAL DISGRACE...NEGLECT IS TOO NICE A WORD, BECAUSE WE HAVE NOW REACHED THE POINT AS NURSES, WHERE WE CANNOT COPE WITH THE INTOLERABLE STRESS LEVELS.....THEREFORE I PLEAD WITH YOU TO MAKE THIS A NEW YEAR RESOLUION...THE E.T.S. , WILL DIE DOWN AFTER XMAS....HEALTH, LIKE THE WEATHER, IS A CONSTANT IN OUR DAILY LIVES, AND LETS FACE IT, WITH A MAJOR DISTRACTION SUCH AS WE HAVE, LABOR IS LITERALLY "GETTING AWAY WITH MURDER" . GOD BLESS, JEANIE
# Lorikeet
Saturday, November 21, 2009 2:17 PM
Jeanie:

We need to knock out the corporates and strengthen the unions before anything better will happen in Health/Hospitals. Unmitigated selfishness and greed are not helpful to any society or endeavour.

From what I heard on Friday, Rudd will not let the parliament go into recess at the end of next week, unless he has HAMMERED HOME his filthy agenda. He may try to extend the sitting into the following week.

I don't believe that nearly all of our politicians could be idiots. If they're not being ridden like Melbourne Cup thoroughbreds, with heavy use of the whip by The Greens, the Corporations are doing it instead. Sometimes they are one and the same.

I'm sure Rudd "takes" his decisions from someone/s outside of Australia, filtered down through the National Executive.
Sunday, November 22, 2009 2:05 AM
We need to do be doing more for our fellow Australian's that don't know about this or arn't interested. If more Australians become aware and we educate them on this issue we would be fighting against this like a war... Inform your friends, print out some flyers, pass them on, start chain emails, do anything and everything. As Martin Luther King Said "A time comes when silence is betrayal, We must move past indecision to action. If we do not act, we shall surely be dragged down."
Sunday, November 22, 2009 2:11 AM
We need to do be doing more for our fellow Australian's that don't know about this or arn't interested. If more Australians become aware and we educate them on this issue we would be fighting against this like a war... Inform your friends, print out some flyers, pass them on, start chain emails, do anything and everything. As Martin Luther King Said "A time comes when silence is betrayal, We must move past indecision to action. If we do not act, we shall surely be dragged down."
Together my family, friends and I put together a website, you can view by clicking on my name. We have shared this with plenty of the public and already have 130 hits in 2 days, lets get our country involved, lets bring our community back from hibernation.
# Julie Hobson
Sunday, November 22, 2009 11:08 AM
Everyone that is against the ETS should email the PM on the following link

http://www.pm.gov.au/PM_Connect/contact_your_pm_form

dont forget to answer the security question at the bottom of the page
Sunday, November 22, 2009 4:58 PM
Thanks Julie, contacting PM now.
# David Metcalf
Sunday, November 22, 2009 9:43 PM
Pollution is not free. We're already paying the tax - carbon and methane emissions already have a cost, only we're paying for it with the debt of our future livelihoods, health, global food and water security.

Like massive debt consumers before the Global Financial Crisis, we ignore all the warning signs - Global Warming just seems too horrible to be believable - it's easier to close our eyes and blocks our ears and pretend it will all go away.

Markets need regulation and polluters need regulation.

An ETS moves these costs into the original price to correct a market imbalance (it's called a Pigovian tax http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigovian_tax).

Australia has the highest per capita emissions IN THE WORLD. Global warming is REAL and it's happening FAST. This is not musical chairs anymore children...

By the time the crackpot deniers wake up to reality, it might just be a little too late.

We either adapt now, or suffer terrible consequences.

Australia needs to show leadership, mate-ship and basic ethics. We need to back our friends in the fight against polluters, not because it's easy, but because it's the right thing to do.
# David Metcalf
Monday, November 23, 2009 10:15 AM
If you want to know the real scam in Australia, here's a good starting point.

"The Dirty Politics of Climate Change"
http://www.tai.org.au/documents/downloads/WP84.pdf

Global warming is REAL. The filthy polluter lobby groups can only pervert the truth for so long...
# Alex
Monday, November 23, 2009 10:32 AM
Exactly Sir you have nailed it Thank goodness there still are politicians like yourself and Lord Monckton M.P. in Britain who can see the senseless nonsense that kev07, Penny Wong and the like believe,that this is very dangerous indeed for the whole World.
Check this video out and shudder friends.Alan Jones interviewing Lord Monckton

http://2gb.com.au/index2.php?option=com_newsmanager&task=view&id=4998
# Mr How Boat
Monday, November 23, 2009 1:42 PM
Im pretty sure everyone has heard this on the news. Hackers recently got documents (from a institution that studied climate change), these documents showed that the data were manipulated and exaggerated just so they can make people believe that climate change (via human activity) is real.

Seems like the government, is trying to push this bill, even though the science is still being debated. Something is not right.
# Janet Smithson
Monday, November 23, 2009 3:48 PM
Barnaby, Please keep up the good wood work on the carbon reductions. You seem to be one of the few members of parliament who has any sense on this subject. I talk to a lot of people about this and I have yet to find a person who agrees with Kevin Rudd. Will you try and shake some sense into Malcolm Turnbull
# KYLIE
Monday, November 23, 2009 8:04 PM
I vote against ETS. Rudd is only thinking about the dollars so he can pay his debts. We are not your bank Mr Rudd!
# Rev G N L Guy
Tuesday, November 24, 2009 10:57 PM
I am concerned about "greenhouse gases" and I'd like to see them reduced.
Selling the right to pollute doesn't cut it.

Any proposal to reduce greenhouse gases which doesn't start with the mass production of electric cars (with solar panels on the roof to recharge the battery whilst the cars is parked all day at the station or car park at work) is a nonscence.

Why isn't the Federal Government funding Sydney's north west rail line?
thousands of cars would be of the roads.

Why arn't there solar panels on every railway platform roof?

Thank you Barnaby for standing against a nonscence, against unnecessary social control and preservation of our freedom

# Luke Miller
Tuesday, November 24, 2009 11:43 PM
Great speech Barnaby, so true in every aspect. Hopefully common sense prevails and this pointless tax gets voted down.
# Andrew Schroeter
Wednesday, November 25, 2009 1:16 AM
Excellent speech Barnaby,

Please keep up your great work, I have just found this intereting information and would like to refer you to this link..it may prove useful..
best regards Andrew Schroeter
http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/content/2006/s1568867.htm
http://www.tai.org.au/documents/downloads/WP84.pdf
# Clive Shepherd
Wednesday, November 25, 2009 1:39 PM
I pray to God the other senators are listening to what you say. Good luck
# Margaret Williams
Friday, November 27, 2009 9:18 PM
Place your vote for Turnbull or the Abbott rebels here.......

http://www.smh.com.au/polls/politics/form.html
# Jacek
Saturday, November 28, 2009 4:55 AM
Mr Joyce, congratulations on your speech! When I hear speeches like yours, I am proud I am an Australian.
# Nathan Worm
Sunday, November 29, 2009 1:12 PM
Well said, you have the suport of my house hold. Keep fighting for the every day Australian.
# Gary Duffy
Sunday, December 06, 2009 4:04 PM
Barnaby,

Can I draw your attention to this, it is a PDF on Gun pollution in the USA. I think the biggest problem is not Planet Warming, it is that the Planet doesn't reconvert released Carbons back through the trees and oceans. I saw a report where it is that 45% of carbon is not being converted back. where as it used to be 40%.. Here is the link to the Pollution from guns, and they haven't factored in the carbon produced by the shot they use.
.http://www.ewg.org/files/leadpoll.pdf

I am very very happy with your decision to go to the front bench and I am sure working with Tony will be a huge benefit to Australians.

I will be helping Hajnal Ban during the next election. I was hoping she would go for a Senate seat..She is a very very clever and gutsy lady... I hope she can get in this time..can you give her a hand?
Gary
# Lee Patterson
Friday, November 18, 2011 7:29 AM
A great speech. I, and a lot of Pensioners like myself are suffering already and it is only going to get speech. Why don't you go for the Prime Ministership?? Why haven't the people of Australia been given the choice to vote on this Carbon Tax??
Monday, November 21, 2011 6:33 PM
Hi everyone, Jeanie from Gold Coast here. Beautiful sunny day, and the first day i can swim this year in ocean or my pool. This is nov 21st, and normally pool & ocean, are warm enough by end of Sept? Very late summer here. Barnaby, i am still researching our constitution for our rights..and came across a 'gem' last night.
OUR Constitution does NOT RECOGNISE MINISTERS! If this is so, then GILLAAAARDS Ministers/executive.. CANNOT MAKE THESE DECISIONS ON THEIR OWN.....WITHOUT A REFERENDUM. ANY NEW NATIOWIDE TAX, MUST GO TO THE PEOPLE FIRST....why aren't you guys pushing this important right of the people? FIGHT IT ON OUR CONSTITUTION PLEASE!! IF RON PAUL CAN DO IT SO SUCCESSFULLY THEN SO CAN YOU. sorry for shouting, but this has dragged on far too long, and is far too serious to not to be rightfully dealt with.

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