Lest We Forget! Australian Spirit Forever. Amen. Its criminal to change a flag for which so many sacrifice their 'Spirit' for us all. To be Australian!

Hi Barnaby,
Couldnt agree with you more.
Im also proud of my heritage...convicts and all.
Ray has always been "leaning left" in my eyes.
The Union Jack means a great deal to a large % of the population.
Why are some,..ie Ray Martin and Malcolm Turnbull ...hell bent in severing ties with our history ????..
This country needs to be as patriotic as possible in the current situation...ie our unAustralian PM is still "bulldozing this country into dark waters"..
Pushing the ETS again into Parliament in Feb just shows how determined and obsessed he really is.
Canada and France are the only other countries stupid enough to continue with this Climate Change world hoax...along with our Kev
Everyone else has "opted out".
Considering the amount of "blantant lies, biased scientific data,media censusing,and standover tactics blocking genuine scientists opinons and results....you'd think Rudd and Wong would be apologising profoundly to the nation....but not a word !!!
Instead they are controlling media news and keeping Australians in the dark ..while pretending nothing has changed and we and the world are "still going to be fried by global warming" !!!!
Everyone out there....forget buying newspapers....start researching the "information highway"... discover the truth and how we are being "herded into control"...by our "world order government".

I think the Australian flag is fine as it is, but at the rate at which the government is allowing global corporations to take over, I feel as if we will soon be flying a Global Flag, with a picture of Planet Earth on it.

Now that our aged care centres have been filled with foreign workers (mostly Asian people) who have come here on visas, Julia Gillard has seen fit to cut the pay of nurses.

Now the very people the government has allowed the corporations to treat as slaves in "the lucky country" are on the verge of revolt. They didn't come here to be treated like second class citizens, to have their working conditions or wages cut!

Today aged care centres were filled with dozens of Australian flags, despite the fact a global corporation is preying upon vulnerable elderly people and visa holders without any legal rights, and creaming off the profits!

shannon:

I think the answer to your question as to why Ray Martin and Malcolm Turnbull want to change the flag is as follows:

To my knowledge, Malcolm Turnbull is a merchant banker who has a vested interest in corporate control.

If we break our ties with the Commonwealth and become a Republic, it will be easier to force us to become part of the Chinawealth of Nations, with a reduced (Asian) standard of living together with global corporate governance.

As for Ray Martin, maybe he just wants to acknowledge that we are now a multicultural country, but I think changing the flag is inviting corporate communism to our collective door.

Dear Senator

All of your reasons for maintaining the status quo are valid, but I disagree with you. Symbolism is everything, and the symbolism of the union jack on the Australian flag reflects a specific culture's control over that flag's country at the time of its creation (in this case, 1905 or thereabouts).

Australia in 1905 is not Australia now. Australia in 1788 is not Australia now. Australia in 5000BC is not Australia now.

I had a grandfather in Palestine (WWI) and another in Tobruk (WWII) as well as an uncle in Vietnam (a regular, not a conscript - not knocking the conscripts at all). None had an attachment to the Australian flag as it stands. The first two resented that they were there as second-class British subjects (and they say their comrades were almost unviersal in that view - especially Brian, my WWII grandfather).

My uncle could never understand that in every major study on the Indo-China conflict, the Australian effort is given very short shrift. "Australians died under this flag" ... complete tripe, in his view.

That's not to say that we change the flag every time we fancy it, but it does say that we ought to find a symbol that reflects as much as what we are about now as we can, and if we can do it in a minimalist way that does not marginalise any group of people, then we ought to do that. Every 100 years in the current modern world is hardly 'radical' and 'loony left' thinking.

I'll give you an example, (and I will avoid mention of the original inhabitants of the land as an argument that is too easy to win) : roughly 30% of all immigrants between 1788 and 1890 were Irish, Catholic, and from the part of the island that despised (and eventually overthrew) its British rulers. How does the current flag with the union jack in placde, remotely represent these people?

Add in this continent's original inhabitants; the Chinese Diggers; the islander Kanaka community in Qld; plus the multiple influxes of post-WWII Eastern and Central Europeans and Italians, Greeks, then the Vietnamese, now the Chinese and Sri Lankans ... you get the drift.

If we were choosing a flag now that satisfied the criteria above, what odds do you think you'd need to get the union jack on there? I'd say nil, and it would be dishonest to suggest otherwise.

There is a time to revisit a nation's flag:

South Africa's was achieved in a almost revolutionary context which Australia is unlikely to experience;

The USA were originally a British colony who fought for self determination and who created a flag that doesn't at all reflect that British influence (in 1777); Canada changed its flag to its current highly original design without the sky falling, and they have arguably the most recognisable flag of all; etc etc. Australia are lumped in with true British current and former colonies such as New Zealand, Tuvalu, Fiji, British Columbia ... every single 'other' country that flew the union jack has since discarded it. It would be difficult to argue that the main driver was its anachronism.

Your arguments around the similarities between the Dutch and French flag are not relevant to this discussion at all - the two countries are very close neighbours and share a common heritage and history going back 1500 years. The same argument you make make to fritter way the Australia / New Zealand flag similarities! Your logic here is not consistent at all.

So, Senator, change for change's sake? Taking just the tip of the argument above, it is clearly not "change for change's sake".

Further, if you represent a specific group of people, and that group of people are primarily white Anglo Celtic Queenslanders (me included - though now resident in the 'smoke') you basicaly DO NOT represents the views of the country at large, or anything near it. Happy for you to make your points and also this acknowledgement, but now that you are a senior opposition front bencher (and I hope this continues, by the way) the nation probably expects a little more circumspection, and a little less "Cartoon Barnaby".

You are entitled to your opinions, and I respect that these opinions are broadcast for your voting audience, but don't undermine the genuine contribution you could actually make. As a CNP man you will never be PM and will never have th eresponsibility of running the country as leader of a ruliong party (and this is an important point) but you do have a responsibility to this country to be balanced and thoughful in your comments and press releases.

The NATS need contemporary thinking to stay relevant, not outdated Bruce-Ruxton-type platitudes about the flag.

You would be surprised how many of the apparent 'enemy' are looking to you for a genuinely clever and well-informd alternative voice.

Best regards
SWS Johnson

To Mr Johnson,

Sorry dont agree with you at all.
There are more conservative thinking people out there,.. than you think.
Are you a "true rural person" or the "tree change variety" who moved to the country and think everyone should have your vision.?
My father fought in New Guinea and has proudly flown the flag at the front of his property for years...
God forbid if anyone removes that flag !!!...it represents many memories of comrades and a time period in life for him and others...
Why didnt USA turn away from red/white and blue colours then..?? funny they have been trying to get closer to England ever since..

As regard Barnabys attitude.....well sir havent you got it..?????.
Thats why he is, so popular ...because he is honest...ditch the bloody "political correctness"...he is informed, fresh, energetic ... not boring or 'bullshitting up the wall"...like the majority of his opponents..!!

SW Johnson:

Then may we assume that the flag of your choice would be green, with a big picture of Planet Earth in the top left hand corner, large international banks on the other 3 corners, and the words, "Member State - Chinawealth of Nations" in the centre?

SW Johnson:

I would like you to know that all of my forebears came here from Great Britain, some during the period you mentioned.

Although some were Irish Protestants, most were from England and Scotland, with narry an Irish Catholic Republican to be found among them at all.

I entirely agree with the Senator. My father was one of the original Anzac's and he volunteered very early in WWI to help protect our way of life. Certainly it has evolved since then, but the flag is a symbol of freedom and the prosperity we enjoy.

Changing the flag would only further the cause of major changes, which would be detrimental to our society.

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it" is worthwhile keeping in mind.

Marjorie N Wisby

#SW Johnson Tuesday, January 26, 2010 9.05PM
"Symbolism is everything"? Respect History! The Union Jack , gave a 'civil basis' for our nation's freedom to grow as one community. Australia has grown with wisdom from 'our' past. Time strengthens 'Australian Spirit' (Southern Cross) and its 'Culture' (Star of the Commonwealth). Your symbolism comment seems to have more of a political criteria to disrupt peace instead of encouraging of it. Peace should never be taken for granted. History shows peace will always suffer as groups occupy a community for a period in time.
As for your comments on Barnaby for PM. Well he can't do any worst than 'The Joker' that we've currently got! Its been a labor circus right from the begining & to it's end. Your Cartoon mate; 'Tin Tin' (kRudd) has got nothing! but himself to blame for spinning himself out of control. Look at the Inflation Warming caused by his spending climate. That's your man-made disaster still in the making!

Hi all.

Considering the ETS is rearing its ugly head again on Tuesday,this forum is awfully quiet ????
Where is all the fighting spirit gone !!!???
Emails need to be "showering on politicians",again !!
My Question : The game has been exposed as a total fraud....WHY is either Party going THERE, again ????
Its about time.. "Green".... in this country took a "back seat "
Fixing the "dying Health System" should be the first priority..considering how all parties are concerned with the "huge" ageing population.
How about all politicians ..showing some good old fashion.."commonsense"
and placing this FIRST on the 2010 agenda.
1) Time management and job investigation for all levels of management and administration in all Health depts and areas.
Sack 50% of them...redirect money to nursing staff,drs,support medical staff,cleaners and equipment.
Thousand of dollars are wasted every year on "morning teas, useless meetings,conferences and "red tape".
Its a total embrassement.!!

.

shannon:

Here is an answer to one of your questions.

A carbon tax (together with corporatised water, electricity, gas, rail, ports, education, health & aged care) will further financially empower trans-national corporations throughout the world.

Our government agreed long ago to kick its own country in the guts to empower the third world and the TNCS. Here is just one of the many agreements signed by the Australian Government to date:

General Agreement on Trade & Services (GATS)

http://aftinet.org.au/papers/ranald1.html

If you are sick of being sold out and sold off, vote small, and hope to God that there is still time to fix it.