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18
Keep Australia Australian

If the response to my website is any guide, there are thousands of people who share my concerns about the proposal by the Chinese-Government owned Chinalco to increase its stake in Rio Tinto. Thank you to all Australians who have contacted me to offer their support for my stand. You can sign the PETITION by using this link.

The Chinese Government-owned company Chinalco wants to increase its stake in one of Australia’s largest mining companies Rio Tinto. Australia’s Foreign Investment Review Board has this week been given another 90 days to consider whether it will allow this proposed deal to allow Chinalco to increase its ownership from 9 per cent to 18 per cent.

FIRB has to make a recommendation to the Treasurer, Mr Swan, and as I told Kerry O’Brien on The 7.30 Report on Tuesday: “We have the foreign investment review board which has an oversight given to the Treasurer. The Treasurer has the capacity to block the deal. It is a political decision to block the deal. And I'm asking for a political decision to be made to block this deal.

“Lifting it from nine to 18 per cent has ramifications, and we've seen people such as the AFIC come out today and clearly spell that out as an independent third body that - and also one of the major shareholders in Rio that has major concerns about this. Legal and General even in the UK has major concerns about this deal. But the fundamental thing: it's our sovereign asset, and this is the government of another country buying into our asset, buying into the nexus between the Australian people and the wealth that's created by our minerals.”

I am appearing in two television commercials to get this message to as many people as possible. As I say: "The Australian Government would never be allowed to buy a mine in China. So why would we allow the Chinese Government to buy and control a strategic asset in our country. Stop the Rudd Government from selling Australia."

It is not only Rio Tinto and Chinalco. The Chinese state-owned MinMetals wants to buy some of OZ Minerals.

From the many emails I received last night and this morning I know that Australians are concerned if Australia’s sovereign wealth falls into the hands of a foreign government.

On Wednesday in the Senate I will be asking that the following matter be referred to the Senate Economics committee for inquiry and to report by 17 June 2009:

1. The international experience of Sovereign Wealth Funds and State Owned companies, their role in acquisitions of significant shareholdings of corporations, and the impact and outcomes of such acquisitions on business growth and competition.

2. The Australian experience of foreign investment by Sovereign Wealth Funds and State Owned Companies in the context of  Australia's foreign investment arrangements.

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# Chris Charles
Wednesday, March 18, 2009 10:14 AM
Hi,
This morning, on the (rather crappy) Today Show I listened with interest to the story about your efforts to thwart the Chinese buyout of Australian resources. Congratulations, I have been arguing this point for many months to no avail. Glad to see a high profile political figure take up the cause.

Next time KOB mentions the FIRB to you in relation to this, tell him they didn't stop the communist Chinese government's buy out of Mount Gibson, Cape Lambert, Midwest Corp or the many other mineral resource projects now controlled by the communist Chinese government. Here's a link to some very revealing information that you might like to stick under KOB's very arrogant nose:

http://snipurl.com/e13fz

The number of resources that the FIRB has allowed to be sold off doesn't give anybody much confidence that they will reject the latest RIo offer. In fact on past form, it probably suggests they'll approve it. So then it would be in the hand of Rudd and Swan and we all know which way that one would go.

I'm so glad you have spoken up about this vital issue. The rest of the mob in Canberra must be simply asleep at the wheel not to find this the single most important issue regarding Australia's future prosperity.

Why doesn't the government, in these times of economic difficulty, seek to improve these resources themselves for the future security of our nation? IF they are good enough for the Chinese govt to want to buy them, shouldn't they be good enough for our own govt to secure them? We should be developing them and ensuring our long term future as a resource supplier to the world. Not going for the 'quick bucks' and selling off these great national assets which we'll never be able to afford to buy back in the future. It's a bloody disgrace.

Please keep up the good fight. We all need your voice to be heard loudly and strongly across the nation. Keep using TV as your promotional medium, it has the best reach.

Thank you from a very concerned Australian.

Best wishes to you with your endeavours.
# Jeremy Peters
Wednesday, March 18, 2009 10:17 AM
For iron ore (other minerals have broadly similar economics), the key to this is the price/quality differential in shipping South American iron ore, which is of superior quality.

Five years ago, this differential was $A8/t, which is significant. I don't know what the difference is now, but expect that is about the same, having broadened only during the recent period when shipping rates were inflated.

In any event, a substantial Chinese ownership of resources will suppress prices and undoubtedly skew supply contracts to the detriment of Japanese mills, who will be forced to seek South American material.
My view is that this wil lead to a price war with the South Americans, so China wins both ways.

The ore is here and stays put until excavated, so we do have some implicit control. We wouldn't allow a cartel to develop within our own economy (this could be an ironic statement, considering the behaviour of major retail suppliers and building supply businesses), so let's not sponsor one with our resources.

Incidentally, I'm a geologist & mining engineer. SICOIU.
# Susie Howard
Wednesday, March 18, 2009 10:36 AM
I am in total agreement with Senator Barnaby Joyce and I hope he continues to stand firm and speak out loudly. I fear the only answer in the end will be at the ballot box if Rudd and Co allow the Chinese government to own a substantial holding in any of our key resources. I am just a citizen of Australia, now retired, but I hold grave doubts for our nation's future.

Perhaps if the Chinese government had a genuine compassionate heart at its core I would not be so fearful but the antics against His Holiness the Dalai Lama demonstrately clearly their absurd views and as such, I believe, should not gain entry to world communities via a backdoor when they have shown they are still a barbaric nation with a scandalous human rights record. I bow my head in shame that they were not first held accountable for their dismal record with the genocide of Tibetans in their own country before being allowed to hold the Olympics Games. It seems our world leaders have a lack of moral compass.

Whilst such a nation continues to instill fear and torture and repression then under no circumstances should we allow the Chinese government to gain further toe prints into our sacred resources and deplete our own future economic well-being.
# Chris Charles
Wednesday, March 18, 2009 10:42 AM
Swan’s FIRB guidelines ignore the elephant in the room
Monday, 18 February 2008
Stephen Mayne writes:

Whilst the foreign-controlled Murdoch press rarely weigh in on the emotive issue of Australia’s dreadful foreign ownership record, Wayne Swan’s new FIRB guidelines for sovereign finds suggest the Rudd Government is alert but not alarmed.

In what might have been an attempted diversion from the Brian Burke emails drama, Swan’s foreign investment announcement delivered some front page coverage today whilst ignoring the elephant in the room – the amount of our “farm” already in foreign hands.

Does the public care about this stuff? You bet. This Crikey story on 4 February delivered more than 1500 page views to the three key foreign ownership lists that I maintain.

And what about the rarely mentioned fact that the Singapore Government now controls more Australian business assets than our own government? China’s $16 billion raid on Rio Tinto means it too is getting closer to a similar achievement as the follow two lists suggest:

Chinese Government investment in Australia

Chinalco spent $15.5 billion for 9% of Rio Tinto in early 2008.

Sinosteel spent $100 million for 10% of WA iron ore hopeful Midwest Corp in early 2008

Shougang Corp: spent $400 million buying 20% of WA iron ore company Mt Gibson Iron in early 2008.

Consortium: five Chinese companies were given FIRB approval in January 2008 to fund $3 billion Oakajee port and rail project in WA.

SAFE: the Chinese sovereign fund put more than $1 billion buying shares in our Big Four banks in late 2007 but the details remain unclear.

Chalco: in September 2007 Queensland government awards rights to develop $3 billion bauxite project near Aurukun.

Anshan Iron & Steel: paid $39 million in September 2007 for 13% of iron ore miner Gindalbie and signed $1.8 billion joint venture deal.

CITIC spent $113m in July 2007 lifting stake in Macarthur Coal stake from 11.6% to 19.9%

Shougang Corp: steel group spent $56 million in March 2007 buying 13% or iron ore developer Australian Resources and agreed to fund $US2.1 billion development.

CITIC paid more than $400 for its 22.5% stake in the Portland Aluminium Smelter in the 1990s.

Singapore Government investment in Australia

1995: Capita Land buys controlling stake in property developer Australand which is now worth more than $1 billion.

June 2000: Singapore Power buys Victoria's monopoly electricity transmission business Powernet for $2.1 billion.

2001: Singtel buys Optus for $14 billion.

April 2004: Singapore Power paid $5.1 billion for TXU's Australian energy portfolio, but on-sells $2.2 billion of retail and generation assets to China Light & Power.

2007: Singapore Power pays $4.5 billion in cash to Alinta shareholders to become the monopoly gas distributor in NSW and the largest distributor of electricity in Victoria.

May 2007: Singapore sovereign fund, the GIC, pays $717 million for a 50% stake in Westfield Parramatta, Australia's third-most valuable shopping centre.

June 2007: the GIC teamed up with the Commonwealth Bank and the Myer family to pay $600 million for the prestigious Myer Melbourne complex.

June 2007: Temasek Holdings paid $401 million or an excessive $7.30 a share for 12% of ABC Learning to become the largest shareholder in the world's biggest childcare company.

*** NOTE: This data is from back in Feb 2008. Other resource projects have been sold since then. This is not a comprehensive list, just a sample. If you care, make a noise. Write to your federal member. Call talk-back programmes. Don't let this continue to happen. How is our government operating in our best interest when it allows this to occur? It is beyond disgraceful.
# Peter Freckleton
Wednesday, March 18, 2009 11:35 AM
Congrats and heartfelt gratitude. Once again you show the crucial importance of independent minds in our rubber-stamp parliament.

Naturally most Australians agree with you 100% on Rio Tinto, along with the Rio CEO-elect who resigned in protest at the proposal.

It would be great if you could also look at the proposed Chinese acquisition of OZ Minerals (OZL), flying under the radar but in many respects even worse:

1. It involves FULL, not partial, acquisition. Australian shareholders will be paid a fire-sale amount and told to get lost. The acquiring company Minmetals is owned by the Chinese government and there will be no share-swap or other Australian participation in Minmetals.

2. OZ Minerals is the world’s second-largest zinc producer, and Australia’s third largest diversified mining group after BHP and Rio Tinto. So the stakes are huge.

3. It produces enormous revenue: $ 1.2 Billion in 2008 (OZL's published financial results, p13). These are actual sales of hard product, not a gleam in a hopeful prospector's eye.

4. China no longer wishes to buy the golden eggs, but the goose itself. Once we sell it, we'll have no goose and no more golden eggs. It is obvious why China wants that, but equally obvious why WE don't.

5. The alleged reason for the sell-off is the debt owed due to the takeover of Zinifex, which was stupidly based on bank borrowing that apparently cannot be serviced for a single year ! But the debt is $1.1 billion, less than one year's receipts from customers ($1.39 billion in 2008 -Financial results, p30). Imagine buying an investment property for the price of one year's rent. Doesn't happen in the real world

If this vast asset absolutely must be nationalised, surely Australia's interest would be better served if the Australian government rather than a foreign country did it. Let's have a 5-year vision rather than 5-month myopia.

The Future Fund could take a stake in it at immense advantage to our people over the years, or the government could simply guarantee the bank debt, much preferable to the "Rudd Bank" gambling on unproductive land developers.



# Jason
Wednesday, March 18, 2009 11:46 AM
Good on you Mr Joyce for standing up for OUR assets. You have my full support on this issue. We should not be selling any further stakes in our resources.
I watched your ads, and wanted to suggest that you direct Aussies to a website/poll to show Kevin Rudd & Wayne Swan how many people support you.
Jason, fellow Queenslander.
# Betty McCormack
Wednesday, March 18, 2009 1:10 PM
Well done Mr Joyce - you have my family's FULL SUPPORT on your stance of NOT selling our major resources to foreign owners... what is wrong with our Government - do they just not care and are happy to sell our country 'down the drain'? Why can't our own Government look after our own assets and keep them here! If Kevin keeps looking after his Chinese mates in this manner he will soon find that Aussies do have a voice - at the polls!
# p.thornton
Wednesday, March 18, 2009 1:45 PM
It's called selling the farm isnt it? Keep China out of our businesses.
# Rohan White
Wednesday, March 18, 2009 3:03 PM
I am a hard worker on a modest wage & invested my life savings in Oz Minerals.Stupid i know,but the Directors of the company lied when they told investors they had an "enviable and healthy" cash balance sheet of $1.4billion in Sept 08.The cash this incompetent company has burned since is staggering and the company WILL go under leaving nothing left for thousands of hard working Australians who invested.I will be financially ruined.Il still lose 85% of my capital if the deal is approved.All that Minmetals is doing is taking over a basket case.More importantly for most of you reading this,thousands of Australian jobs will be saved.
# Frankie James
Wednesday, March 18, 2009 4:41 PM
This is what I wrote to Rio the other day and copied in the treasurer.

"Hi there Rio and in Particular Tom Albanese. My two Great Grandfathers died building this country, my Grandfathers died building this country, one of whom I never met as he died on the land before I was born. My father had to leave school at 12 years of age to look after his mother, he drove cattle between towns in a horse and wagon, sleeping in potato sacks with the dogs and the fleas to keep warm. He is now in his 70’s and still working on the land to build this country. If you have ever eaten meat in this country, it is likely that you have eaten meat which was either bought or sold by my father.

We built this country!!!!! This country contains “OUR STUFF”

This is MY country; this is NOT your country to give away at some bargain price.

How in gods name after 6 years of unprecedented growth and sales of “MY STUFF” have you managed to get yourself in this position. Rule 1 of business, when times are good, save plenty of money for when the tide turns as it has now.

So Chinalco can give you access to more debt – Yep no worries dig a bigger hole, use more dynamite, that will fix the problem. What school of business did you come from??? Rule 2 of business – more debt doesn’t cure debt. When are you going to learn? What a sad sate of affairs

You are not to give away “My stuff”, this is MY country, THIS IS MY STUFF. If people want to buy a bag of sand then sell them a bloody bag of sand, don’t give them access to the sand pit.

And you call yourself a businessman, what a joke, how much do you get paid? That must be a bigger joke.

I hope the government ensures that you never get the chance to offload MY FAMILIES AND MY COUNTRIES ASSETS to China.

Listen buddy, the stockpiles “of stuff” will run out in a year or so and when the international crowd comes begging for more bags of sand, then make them pay – make them pay top dollar. Who made you the king of my sandpit??

Geez I have never had the displeasure of seeing such a shortsighted business venture as that with Chinalco. Give me a call, I will give you some free “business 101 training” – who the hell is advising you!!!!! Do a wiki on the word “boondoggle”, basically I interpret it to mean “a short sighted venture done under the appearance of looking useful”.

You have had 6 – 8 years to prepare for a downturn, now its time to pay the piper for not being cautious and diligent with the pennies.

Money is one thing Rio, but “the stuff” Rio, it’s about “The stuff”. Now you are in a pickle, you can’t just throw the baby out with the bathwater and dump “the stuff” to China, you have a responsibility to patch the ship, block the holes and not just start throwing your rations overboard to lighten the load. May I suggest throwing in the word “PIRATE” to end this email.

Yours sincerely

Frankie James
Concerned citizen and part owner of “Australia’s stuff”"
# Adrian
Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:45 PM
Just see how china views forign investment and how it will not allow take overs by forign companies

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7949903.stm
# Dr. Richard Chan
Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:05 PM
I, of British Hong Kong origin, agree that Australia must not sell to the Chinese Communist Party.
They do not have human rights or democracy.
It is sad to see Hong Kong falling apart in its system. All because of the selfish hypocritical system that the Mainlanders have.
So what if they have the cash right now.
Australians have pride and potential in natural resources.
This is our bargaining power with the G7, the World and China.
Do not take this money now to lose Australia's future bargaining power.
We are likened to the Middle East's crude oil.
The Middle East kings of oil would not sell them to China permanently. Why should we?
In fact, we should make long term strategic cooperation with them, so that Australian government can continue to make money out of this big Chinese market.
Don't fall into their trap! The Mainland Chinese are not honest. Let alone Communists.
Please make good business sense.
Good luck to you.
You are doing a good job!

Yours sincerely,
Dr. Richard Chan, M.B.,B.S. (Melbourne), Australian citizen for Australia
Wednesday, March 18, 2009 8:47 PM
The Chinese Government's sovereign owned company, Chinalco, is creating quite a tremor in the sitting Board of Rio Tinto ...even with a minority shareholding of 9-18%.

Can you imagine trying to discuss your future commodities pricing structure for China ...with 2 Chinese Government Politburo Directors of Rio Tinto sitting in on your top secret meetings??

Here's an interesting short video analysis of the situation of the Chinese 'Trojan Horse' in Australia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2L6d3m5Pi5A&feature=channel_page
# Steeve
Wednesday, March 18, 2009 8:48 PM
Barnaby, rarely do I agree with your side of politics, in fact when I disagree you'll know thats when you are wrong LOL. But on this issue i couldnt agree more. Sovereign wealth funds are a modern curse, for Australia and most western nations do not have them. Singapore and other parts of the world do and use this to unfair advantage.

Living in Hong Kong there is a fear bordering on the pathological of western firms gaining control of ANY chinese firm in a position of superiority. They will use state resources and preferential lending by state owned banks to Scupper any deals that might mean Australian firms can own Chinese businesses outright.

Recent example include ANZ's failed bid for Wing Hang Bank with China Construction Bank bidding three times the value of the firm for its accquisition. This is backed by the Macquarie Banks attempted buy of PCCW, the major phone carrier in Hong Kong. This too was scuppered after Richard Li made a deal with the devil to privatise the Carrier in conjunction with China Mobile. China Mobile and CCB are both state owned institutions.

The PRC government are really the communist party of china with another badge. Better Australia had nothing to do with them anymore. Any Business dealing with the chinese or a firm in a joint venture sign standard contracts that mean any profits go 80/20,.. you guess who the 80 goes to.

Why should Chinese firms be allowed to do in Australia under rule of law contracts, what Australian firms are not allowed to do in China. This is blatant economic nationalism by the chinese and its high time some nations went out there and said that not everything goes China's way. It wants to be taken as an equal nation, start acting like you treat other nations as equals.





Wednesday, March 18, 2009 8:50 PM
What's wrong with our Government that it doesn't step in an buy a majority shareholding in OZ Minerals?

The government could buy shares under the 85 cent offer of the Chinese Government and continue to employ aussies ...and we'd retain ownership of the second biggest zinc mine in the world.

When the shares go up to twice what the Govt bought them for they could sell off half their share holding and pay for the taxpayers investment. Us taxpayers would then enjoy the dividends and stop the Chinese or any other foreigners from owning our turf.

Here's an interesting short video analysis of the situation with OZ Minerals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2L6d3m5Pi5A&feature=channel_page
# Denise Howarth
Wednesday, March 18, 2009 11:24 PM
They the Rudd Government MUST BE KIDDING, please stop them from selling anything to any other Government's period.
# Sydney Lawrence
Thursday, March 19, 2009 10:20 AM
Thank the Lord that someone is finally standing up for Australia and attempting to save something for our kids future.
Fully endorse your battle to keep the ownership of our (at the moment) world class natural resources in Australian hands. Australians must also be aware that in the next few weeks our Rudd Government intends to donate the ownership and control of Australia's vital National Broadband Network to foreign interests. Not only that, but they plan to donate $4.7 billion of Australian taxpayer money to these people to do the build.

There is a demand also, from these foreign companies that Telstra be restricted, by Government regulation, from competing with them. Further they demand that Telstra plant and equipment be confiscated and made available for their use. I know this sounds ridiculous but Senator Joyce it is all true. If the Rudd Government allows this stupidity we could see up to 10,000 Australians, Telstra employees lose their jobs. Thank you again Senator, good luck and God speed.
# Jim Dannock
Thursday, March 19, 2009 4:31 PM
I hope that the Prime Minister and Treasurer have noted that China has rejected Coca Cola’s bid for a Chinese juice company on the grounds that it would produce “a negative effect on competition”.

# terry jorgensen
Thursday, March 19, 2009 8:59 PM
Barnaby the oz goverment should use the 4.7 billion they want to give away to overseas company to get even with Telstra for making a modust profit, to buy equay in Rio Tinto, hand out money could also be used
# Chris Charles
Thursday, March 19, 2009 10:41 PM
To the best of my knowledge, it was Alan Kohler, during his segment on the ABC programme, 'The Insiders', that first mentioned the idea that the government, instead of giving away handouts that would largely end up off shore as consumers purchased imported goods, could alternatively use part of the budget surplus to purchase Rio shares (at their current low price) for the Australian Future Fund which would in time increase in value, pay dividends and become a worthwhile asset while ensuring the national resources remained in the hands of the commonwealth of Australia. He suggested also, that the dividends could be used to assist in the funding of the burgeoning pension scheme as the ageing population steadily increases. Another problem Kevin has not adequately explained how he intends to fund.
# Garry
Friday, March 20, 2009 1:41 AM
Hello Senator Joyce, thank god someone in Canberra is finally going to bat for the Australian people, because as sure as green apples Swan and his ilk are not. This current rubber stamp brigade have more or less signed off one major foreign ownership deal for each week they have been in office. Indeed, so far have proved every bit as bad as Howards lot who were equally bent on selling Australia’s savings bank – it’s future.

Look at it like the Nauru syndrome, where one day in the future, we will be cored out. Though of course it will be a problem left for future generations because our current custodians, will not, cannot - think and act beyond a single political term. And as for long term country building strategy, forget it

The point is, Australian politicians since post WW1 have focussed their efforts on digging up our land and selling it, our assets - at least the valuable bits, and have never applied any large scale effort towards making the country smarter. Rather, we are little more than a quarry for the rest of the world, and at the rate it has been going for too many decades, have been losing ownership and control of the principal assets we have – our quarries.

To bear out our lack of smartness: Do conduct a search for an Australian company of size selling smart 21st century things or services to the rest of the world. By this, I mean any company large enough to make a dent in our GDP. There’s none, not a one. Sure, plenty of global minnows, but nothing of size.

Indeed, to make it worse with all this digging we do, we don’t even make our own shovels, we buy them off Komatsu or Caterpillar, yet we have BHP, the worlds largest mining company here, and are regarded one of the top mining nations of the world, which clearly isn’t true – Destinations, yes, - Nations, no

Whereas Finland, with its population of a mere 5 million. Well it makes and sells Nokia phones and other smart things the world wants to buy. Then there’s the, SKF and Saab Aerospace brands from next door, also little old Israel up to its eyebrows in smart electronics and high value add weapons systems the world wants. And locally, we have a tiny island called Singapore, who are working on finding the worlds highest tech solutions for a raft of medical complaints and other supremely high value-add fixes the world will need. Which means, that one day we will be forced into buying $1000 pills from them to alleviate our pain. Then of course there is their airline business, their worlds largest container port, and their Telco industry. Singapore, a small island - Well managed though.

Others can be added to the list, especially that Penny Black of the worlds banking and finance industry – Switzerland, who have zero assets by way of mineral resources, yet are giants in the mining game. Indeed, they own a very large chunk of Australia, where Swiss intellect provides plenty of digging work for the locals. Jobs, if you like. Not much more though.

Senator Joyce - with this in mind, may I comment on your own words – ie: ““increase its stake in one of Australia’s largest mining companies Rio Tinto “

Australia’s largest mining companies ? Yet the Chinese bought their stake in London

Yes, RIO do have a sub branch listed here, but their head office is in London(do remember their supreme honcho had to make the long trek out here recently) and one day when Australia is all cored out, as it inevitably will be, the London head office will carry on with it’s business elsewhere in the world.

Meanwhile, the RIO branch in Australia, never having been predicated on anything but a passing fling with the locals, will be consigned to a single office suite located in a back lane in downtown Melbourne. Ala, Cecil Rhodes and his forays into Africa, as far as long term country building missions were concerned.

A cursory look around will find that every man and his dog already controls a huge chunk of Australia’s natural resources. Indeed, name the worlds miners and they have already tied up most of our natural assets. The Chinese government are simply late to the table, that is their sin. Save for the fact they don’t want to sell the stuff to the rest of the world, they want it exclusively for their own. Which, of course is at odds with our so called free-trade thinking

Free trade means that anything is for sale, anyone can use Australia as a quarry, just offer us a few jobs, and the place is yours. Conservation of our natural assets and provision for future generations never enters the discussion. The here and now is all that matters… We owe no responsibility for those yet to be born, just turn up on our shores, offer us some industry and jobs, then extract Australia’s mineral wealth as rapidly as possible. Leaving others suffer the burden when it is gone

One would think it is well overdue that a line was drawn in the sand.

For instance, we are told we have endless coal reserves - rubbish statements of the first order, when say, one takes a look at Hunter Valley NSW coal reserves, mined since the mid 1800’s.

As it stands, predictions based on current rates of extraction suggest it will be all gone within 35 years – Sooner if extraction rates are increased. http://www.hcec.org.au/node/163

And as with peak oil matching its target date in 2005, global supplies of natural gas will follow within a decade, Say 2015. Then there is the latest German report on global coal – 2015 should also see its peak

This fiction that we have endless mineral resources has to end, especially with the Chinalco discussion, where there is ample evidence to suggest China is hoarding its own resources. Coal, for instance, whereby their own high grade reserves are multiples of anything Australia could ever hope to offer, yet China hoards their own. As they are doing with rare earths.. Yet on this score, they posses 80% of the worlds known deposits. Indeed, try them on for a long term rare earth contract - it simply won’t happen

Also, the very word “production” reeks of human conceit when it comes to mining.(and fishing for that matter). Miners produce nothing, they “extract”. They grow nothing, they remove natural resources the planet has taken hundreds of million of years to create, never to be renewed again…at least on human timescale.

Thus the notion of our god given natural resources being treated as a “savings bank”, opposed to a crop.

For some odd reason, we have had a long standing policy that Australia is an open door for resource extraction, and to close it,- even in a small way, would be very damaging to our reputation. In my view this official policy is flawed and it is about time we took stock of our own needs….especially those of generations yet to come.

From the above, one might gather there is a far bigger set of questions that need addressing than the immediacy of the RIO/Chinalco issue, and they concern the way this country is politically lead, where the overwhelming evidence suggests that strategic planning for the long term is non existent.

Rather, future generations will have to fend for themselves. With Chinalco, we don’t just have a Sovereign Wealth Fund issue in the here-and-now, we have far deeper matters to confront

I for one, want my country back


# Sydney Lawrence
Friday, March 20, 2009 7:54 AM
Garry excellently written and chockfull of sad but truthful facts.

Australians should be kings of the world. Instead because of extremely poor leadership and apathy by the people we are about to see ourself without ownership or control in our own country.

To demonstrate our pathetic policies I ask this question. Australians extract one ton of iron ore from the ground and sell it to the Japanese for $300 (or whatever). The Japanese send Australia back a $100,000 Lexus. Considering that Japan has no iron ore why cant Australia manufacture and send a $100,000 Lexus to Japan. It's called value adding.

Mr Rudd gives Australians a fist full of dollars and tells us to spend to help employment. Does he not know that what we buy will be made in China and we will be helping employment sure, in China.
# Frankie James
Friday, March 20, 2009 10:37 AM
Garry - True - excellent - absolutely excellent. Sydney,"Australians should be kings of the world" False - Australians should be "The Kings of the Kings of Kings"

We do need more value add to our metals.

We also need the correct engineering and scientific advisors in the mining, technical, environmental, Farming, energy, aquaculture, fishing industries. We need to be taken forward by science and technology and long term views.

We need to start up new projects that will add value in the future.

Yes Barnaby, sure we need to get serious about protecting our assets. We should participate and contribute the the world, but we don't owe anything to anybody apart from a participation and a fair contribution. I agree we don't owe them a cow, but true we do owe them the opportunity to buy a little milk.

I have Rio shares as part of managed funds, and I see my asset go down, but at the end of the day, I take responsibilty for my purchases of these funds and shares and I am aware that the risk carries no guarantee of return - if the price goes down then so be it. I love the country more than I love the money. Chinalco - No way!!!

It may be hard to believe but at the end of the day, Australia could be 100% self sufficent if it absolutely needed to be.

We've got meat fish vegies metals wood, why are we, of all people, running around town with a moochin sack. We are truly the kings of kings
# Chris Charles
Friday, March 20, 2009 9:18 PM
This thread has become an interesting series of observations on the Rio situation and the national predicament generally. I thank all those who have taken the time to pen their thoughts, it has been enlightening.

Garry mentioned that since WWI, Australian governments have been focused on selling off the rights to our resources to foreign interests and have been doing it ever since. This naive practice stemmed largely from the fact that we saw ourselves still in a colonial light, the servant of mother England and had no real vision or sense of worth of ourselves, as a country, in our own right.

While the move towards becoming an independent republic seems appealing, it would also be potentially catastrophic as we cut the final apron strings without first having formed a clear identity of who we are as a nation and where we want to go and how we intend to get there.

Australia can be anything it wants to be. Why do you think other nations are so eager to invest (buy us out) here? We have the size and resources to do what ever we decide to do and we have many clever, innovative people who, out of necessity, can do almost anything with almost nothing. Ingenuity is an Australian tradition.

What this country needs, in fact needed about 50 years ago, is a plan. Right now, we have no idea of 'where we are going' or 'what outcome we would like to achieve'. Consequently, we'll most probably end up with very little and feel sorely cheated, when in fact, it will be our own stupid faults for never collectively deciding what we really want and where we want to be in the future.

China introduced the 5 year plan in the late 1940's and Russia had them as far back as 1927. While it could be argued that the Russian model was not completely successful, and was complicated with many social and economic problems that still exist, they were able to rival the USA militarily throughout the Cold War (1950's - '90's) , successfully maintain a comprehensive space research programme and many other great achievements in that time. What they didn't do so well was provide for their people, but that was arguably a planning oversight. ;-)

China on the other hand has been highly successful with its' 5 year planning and is a most interesting case to review if you get the time.

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five-Year_Plans_of_China

Australia needs to find a way of taking the short sightedness that blinds our political leaders between one election and the next, and give them a long term vision to strive for, regardless of which party is in power.

I have long thought that a system that allowed the people a chance, via a referendum, to define and present a clear set of goals to be achieved over a political term would be a very good idea. Coupled with a 20-25 year overall vision / mission statement, governments would be expected to achieve a set of tasks, set by the people, within their term in office.

Annual performance audits would be held that ensured the government was on track. Any serious shortfall in performance would lead to an instant dissolution of the parliament and an immediate election would be called. This would keep them on their toes and doing the job we demanded. It may also lead to loss of parliamentary pensions. Conversely, governments that performed beyond expectations could expect to be bountifully rewarded for their efforts.

The sort of tasks that would be set would be initially infrastructure related. Building a better road system, restoring rail services for goods freight, improving telecommunications, building (green) refineries and smelters to value add to the resources we currently export as unrefined ore. Solving our nations water shortage by building pipelines and canals from areas such as the Ord River / Argyle Dam, planting forests in our arid areas to act as huge CO2 sinks. Redefining our agricultural capabilities in light of the imminent world food shortage. Cotton, rice and other water intensive crops may be better left to nations with higher rainfall while we focused on more suitable and bountiful cropping pursuits.

As you can see, I've got it all worked out! Now, I just wonder if anyone else agrees with me and if so, what are we going to do about it?

I realise and apologise that this post is 'off-topic' and that the Rio buy out is the focus of this thread, but the ridiculous Rio and soon, Fortescue Metals buy-out situations that we now face as a result of poor corporate governance on the part of Rio and lousy, overly-elastic regulations on the part of successive governments and the FIRB, is only a symptom of this country's far greater problems, it's lack of identity, its lack of purpose and its complete lack of any map of where it is going into the future. If we had these things in hand, we wouldn't be selling off the farm left, right and centre to China and Singapore to pay off a debt we would have never incurred in the first place.
# Chris Charles
Friday, March 20, 2009 9:23 PM
Sorry Frankie, while I know what you are trying to say, I have to disagree. We are not the kings of anything. We are just the luckiest bunch of arsey bastards the planet has seen in a couple of hundred years. And I fear our luck is about to run out.
# Chris Charles
Saturday, March 21, 2009 1:52 AM
While we're at it, I suppose most of you know about the similar situation with Fortescue Metals proposed 17.55% sell off to another Chinese Communist Party backed company, 'Hunan Valin Iron and Steel'.

Link: http://snipurl.com/e7o4u

Well, it seems that after coming back from a nice big fat lunch, and probably 'a drink', the fat cats down at FIRB have suffered a bout of political indigestion. They have curiously extended the review periods on all three of these very dubious deals, Rio, Oz Metals and Fortescue.

Now, why would that be?

Apparently, some political questioning of the viability / appropriateness of these deals has caused them to reconsider pulling out the trusty Red Rubber Stamp, just yet.

They're probably thinking they'll just wait a while until the heat dies down before passing the deals. Watch this unfold carefully in the coming weeks.

It is SO IMPORTANT that we all make a noise, write to your local member, get on to those talk-back programmes and let these greedy w@nkers know we are NOT HAPPY with our sovereign wealth being sold off, ad hoc, the way it is to anybody, especially the Communist Chinese Government in disguise.

Don't wait until it's too late or think somebody else will take care of it, DO SOMETHING about it YOURSELF, today.

This is a national disgrace and those responsible for the selling off of Cape Lambert, Mount Gibson, Midwest Corp and many others should be not only named and shamed, I wish they could be prosecuted for what effectively amounts to treason. Pity what they did was completely legal. We need the legislation to be be changed so that NO FURTHER SELL OFF OF NATIONAL ASSETS can occur.

It should be in the Constitution that no foreign government or company can purchase Australian land, or mineral rights in future. They should be able to lease land and mining rights from us and pay leasing fees for a limited number of years, but these assets should never be sold out right to any foreign entity. What are we thinking to stand by and allow this to happen?!?!

Have a bit of self respect and grow a set, Australia. If you think this country is worth fighting for, if you think it's worth keeping, ...then STAND UP! We've all sat back for too long saying 'she'll be right, mate' and look where it's gotten us.

Complacency is going to see our kids and grandkids staring down the barrel of 3rd World lifestyle and how will you answer them when they ask, "Why didn't anybody do anything?"

Send this URL to all your mates and let's get some action. If you know of other forums that are actively discussing this, post them here also. I'm surprised how few people have posted here to date, considering Barnaby has been on TV a fair bit recently on this issue. Are my countrymen really so lacking in concern about what is happening? That really worries me. I hope I'm wrong.
# Garry
Saturday, March 21, 2009 2:23 PM
Hello Chris - a cogent expression of wider thinking these days. That is, rubber stamping of foreign ownership deals amounts to little more than an office practice - and the Canberra set simply treat it as a job. Swan doesn’t know it yet, but each of these deals are forming the planks of his political coffin, and more than likely will usher him towards a sharp exit from public life. Plenty of examples of this suddenness of change in Australian politics have come to the fore in recent times, and in each case, the sea change in the public mind has been decisive. Do look at the toll !

Although you tend to suggest some of the topics may be off-line, and the RIO/Chinalco linkage is the principal thread under discussion here, it’s my view that we would simply be applying another band aid to our ailing body if we confine the discussion to a here-and-now problem. When what we really need is a full diagnosis of our faulty lifestyle.

RIO/Chinalco is just the tip of the iceberg, and as Senator Joyce rightly suggests, this particular issue has the potential to turn ugly at some time in the future with State pressure from China. After all, Chinalco, is China - it is not a public company. Though it must be said there’s some shuffling going on in the background in China, which in my view hasn’t been read properly in Australia, where the PRC have vaguely announced that they reserve the right to more or less turn their Chinalco holdings into a number of publicly listed entities at some future date – Or at least something to that effect.

My take on this – and I may be wrong, is that if it happens, and the price of minerals is later manipulated by these new entities, then the PRC can say it is not party to it. Indeed, they would say – “Blame free-enterprise”, We the government had no hand in it.

I do hope Senator Joyce and others grasp this nuance, because it might have significant implications for us. In effect, the PRC may at this moment be positioning them selves towards a blameless stance, and in the process, more or less pull the rug out from our take on things. Naturally we in Australia would still suffer badly, perhaps more so, however we would then have to turn the blame hard nosed Chinese businessmen. Which is not the same as political interference in our way of life, yet the effect would be equally devastating.
Sunday, March 22, 2009 8:07 AM
Barnaby,
I hope you can crank up your excellent adverts now that the Qld Election is over.

Question Barnaby?
Are there any other politicians that understand that the Chinese have begun their invasion of Australia?

Here is a short video on how China has begun its invasion of Australia:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGZHvyUhxLQ&feature=channel_page

Keep pumpin'!
# Garry
Sunday, March 22, 2009 1:55 PM
Getting back to the post WW1 turning point – also a subject of political interference

Prior to that conflagration we were on the brink of becoming a smart country. In fact we really did have a lot going for us - we were poised. The problem was that we had to pay for our participation in this war. Every artillery shell, every bit of horse fodder was funded by the Australian govt by way of loans, leaving us in debt to the British to the tune of 740 million pounds. Which today doesn’t sound like much, but translates to nearly 200 billion dollars of debt.

Naturally the Brits wanted their money back - In truth they demanded it. Therefore we were pushed into selling the farm, indeed, the Brits did not want us to be industrialized - Rather they wanted the mills in Manchester to be busy making stuff for us. Consequently we were pressured into being a supplier of raw materials

Thus the industrial economic stagnation, and our reversion to agrarian thinking, which in various political forms has carried through to this day. The Brits, the Americans, and maybe China today, have a term for this sort of economic influence....they call it “Colonisation”. Indeed, history tells us that even mild mannered Americans have gone to war to preserve their colonisation ideals. And by this, I mean "economic" colinisation

Since WW1, we in Australia have more or less been run by political dullards who haven’t a clue of how the world works …incumbents who unthinkingly assume our future lies in digging the dirt or planting things in it for a living. Their parochial governance has been a chain around our neck.

Our real curse is that we are blessed with an abundance of land and mineral resources. Therefore it is not necessary to be too smart. Rather, we will buy smart things from elsewhere.

A benchmark publication “The Poverty of Nations” amply describes the fall of the Spanish empire for the same reasons

The term “Lucky Country” perhaps best sums it up. A one liner often bandied around by the captains of Australian politics for decades, as if it were some kind of badge worth wearing.

The author Donald Horne coined it as a title for his publication of the early 1960’s. But within, what he really said was –

“Australia is a Lucky Country …run by second rate people who share in its luck”

Nearly five decades on, the tradition continues.

***********

Seriously, if one takes a casual look around to see who owns what in Australia these days, it will be found that we are far more colonised than ever. Indeed, in the majority of mining instances we are mere workers for absentee landlords head officed in Geneva, Houston, Beijing, or London. Yes we have jobs, but that’s all. In summary, we are a mining destination, and not much more.

Before pouncing on the RIO/Chinalco deal, which is just one of the obscenities we can do without - we should first be looking at the extent of RIO’s colonisation of our natural assets to see how it works. RIO being a British company, and London based. Also keeping in mind, Chinalco bought their RIO stake in London, they did not buy it here.

Fundamentally these minerals are ours, they are not RIO’s to vend as they please. RIO have permission to dig, that’s all, and the fact they have invested vast amounts of money in infrastructure should not infer they have rights beyond those permits.

Perhaps an idealistic view of how it should work. Nevertheless, it is a view most Australians would assume to be the case, which clearly isn’t the reality because of the low priority Canberra gives to its citizens future. Whereas the evidence suggests, global corporations with deep pockets are given carte blanche to do as they please.

Theoretically one should transport RIO’s dilemma to China and take a guess of what the reaction would be there. My guess is they would receive deep sympathy from the PRC about the financial pickle they are in, but permission to offload their China holdings to, say, an American Corporation, let alone the State, would be denied. Explaining their permit to dig was just that, it did not include a transfer of permit ownership, therefore if they fail to dig, and in that failure, stem the flow of expected royalties to the PRC - they must pack their bags and leave.

Perhaps this isn’t a fair take on how China would react. Nevertheless it’s not out of the question.

***********

Also - Having just looked at the gentleman’s video clip, I would suggest that he hasn’t even got half of it. He too speaks of colonisation, but he needs to know more. An awareness of open transactions within the transparency of publicly listed companies is one thing, but the opaqueness of private entities is another.
# Earth.W
Sunday, March 22, 2009 10:06 PM
Essential infrastructure and services including the nation's soil should be retained by the state. No foreign entity should be allowed to own any part of our land.
# Christine O'Hare
Monday, March 23, 2009 11:08 AM
I agree that all countries should have an absolute committment to ensuring Australian companies stay Australian owned or Australian controlled. However, one cannot have one rule for resources and another for our primary industries. Also one critizises China's potential acquistions but what about the British and American companies that have been allowed to rapaciously attack Australian owned companies.
I think Barnaby one question should be seriously asking yourself what have Australian politicians done or not done that has created a situation, that as policy not only China but all throughout Asia they feel that the only way they can guarantee supply is to acquire acquisitions.
Our standing and respect has been greatly erroded from the times we were respected on a state and federal level.
International monetary status is not only downgraded on debt grounds.
# William Joiner
Tuesday, March 24, 2009 3:01 AM
I have read all the comments and agree, we need our own identity. Chris Charles hit the nail on the head with his idea

"It should be in the Constitution that no foreign government or company can purchase Australian land, or mineral rights in future. They should be able to lease land and mining rights from us and pay leasing fees for a limited number of years, but these assets should never be sold out right to any foreign entity. What are we thinking to stand by and allow this to happen?!?! "

Why do Australians pay over 60 cents a liter to purchase our own natural gas, which is substantially cleaner than coal and should be used extensively to generate electricity and power our cars, when we sell it to China and Japan at 3-6 cent a liter? The price of our raw materials for use in manafactureing, such at steel etc, has also increased substantially over the past few years which is also inhibiting manufacturing in this country.
# Richard Murray
Tuesday, March 24, 2009 5:51 AM

Dear Barnaby and Staff. This is the most important issue for Australia's long term financial future. WE ARE DOOMED if this is allowed to continue. The money Australia makes out of the mining sector is critically important and is available to be put into other long term projects that will ensure Australia's financial horizons prosperous. If foreign ownership of our GREATEST assets is allowed to occur, then MAKE NO MISTAKE we will be completely doomed financially. If I know nothing else, from the 4 corners of the universe, the money Australian and Australian's will loose due to foreign ownership dictating commodity prices, with be absolutely CATASTROPHIC. You have my unequivocal support on this extremely urgent matter. PLEASE don't allow this to continue - Australia's Future is counting on you and others with your for sight.

Kindest Regards - Mr Richard Peter Murray BS Aviation ,Dip App Sc Aviation, Dip Air Transport , Australian Commercial Pilot.
# Sydney Lawrence
Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:25 AM
Those amongst us who condoned the transfer of Australian jobs overseas with the arguement that everything would balance out with the sale of our mineral resources are about to have egg on their face.

Australians are about to be hit by the classic pincer movement. Firstly, those who have taken our jobs will see the opportunity to raise the prices of their products as we have lost our capacity to produce them.

Secondly, the prices we receive for our mineral exports will drop dramatically as our customers realize the vunerable position we have placed ourselves in. We now see our leaders talk of "one world', and Australia will suffer for it.
# Chris Charles
Tuesday, March 24, 2009 9:31 AM
Thank you William for your agreement. Nice to see a few new names posting at last. We all need to email the link to this forum to all our friends, as a few posts have mentioned now, this is the most important issue on the agenda concerning Australia's future. Full stop. Nothing else comes close.

Parliament can waste inordinate amounts of time arguing about Work Choices and cash hand outs which are all important matters however they seem to spend almost no time at all discussing this issue which makes the other two I mentioned seem paltry.

Lawrence is correct about us losing industries to OS producers. We we told that our resource industry would see us through. Well as others have pointed out, we are little more than an enormous quarry for OS operators in that arena also. Everything has been sold out from under us and we have little left. Cattle, sheep, grain and dairy - all the old primary industries have been let go. Now the manufacturing industries are drawing their last dying breaths. What do these fools in parliament think we are meant to survive on. Or are they not fools at all? Are they in on some much bigger conspiracy to cripple this country for the benefit of some other nations? And BTW, has anyone seen or heard of Gareth Evans since he left for the UN? What about Richo and Hawkie? B@stards, but not the only ones.

Successive governments have allowed / encouraged this deconstruction to happen and what I want to know is why? Peter Costello, Paul Keating, John Howard and now Swan have all held the position of Treasurer at some point in their careers, how can they sleep at night knowing what they have done to rape this country and its people of its 'common wealth'? They should be ashamed.

Peter Costello brags about the great surplus he left behind. Well any one can sell off the farm, the mines and the communications system and then bank the profits, Peter. No great achievement there mate. I understand you even sold off a large amount of the gold bullion held as insurance by the Reserve Bank at one point too. Well done! What did you actually do to promote infrastructure investment in the key industrial sectors in this country. I'll tell you. SFA!

And Lawrence, again you are right, ...well, half right, about resource prices dropping. No doubt they will but not so much because of the vulnerable position we are placed in, although surely that contributes to the decision, but because the Chinese (and others) OWN the resources now. Why would they charge themselves a high price for them? Or, in the spirit of Communism, anything at all really?

Good on you all for showing an interest in what has and is happening to our country. Garry - I didn't mention you before but your post was spot on. It shows that thinking Australians DO CARE about these issues, and probably just feel completely helpless at each election trying to pick a favourite in a two horse race. I know I do.

Now is the time for the emergence of a new political party with the interests of Australia's future to give people another choice. The two major parties are so alike these days, I cannot help but think they must get together and plan each sell off and how much each deal will further line their pockets. There is definitely no party, ...actually not even a single politician raising these wider issues and it stinks of collusion. Much the same as the US situation really, now that the Clintons and the Bushes have declared their undying love for each other.

I hope Barnaby reads all of these comments and makes some decisions about going a bit further with this than just the recent RIO deal. We need to protect what is left of the farm and as another post suggested, the licences should not be transferable. If you can't make a profit from a venture, the rights should return to the government until someone else applies.

The government could also follow China's lead and begin some of it's own ventures and sure up our faltering reserves for the future. Add to that a few refineries and smelters to value add to the materials we produce before we ship them OS. We could even think about making stuff again. Oh no! Heaven forbid!
# Garry
Tuesday, March 24, 2009 10:19 AM
Given that we are advised to worship the mantra of free-trade at all costs one should never object to new shareholders coming on board. After all, public corporations are supposedly front line expressions of this mantra. However, in the case of natural resources there should be no assurance whatsoever that a guaranteed supply of these resources automatically comes with such a shareholding, or even via the full ownership of a corporation, for that matter.

In my view, and one that is probably shared by a majority of Australians, these mineral assets are ours, and ours alone, and if they are to be extracted and sold, then it must be carried out in the name of free trade(our mantra), where they are sold to the highest bidder by way of contracts directly related to prevailing global market prices. This view is taken because it is widely appreciated that the sole mission in life for any business, large or small, is make a profit for its owners. And after all, it is we Australians who own our mineral resources.

Exclusive access to our resources should never enter the conversation, unless of course a given Australian State or vital utility has a need for the resource.

In summary - Resources in this land are ours, and ours alone. And the fact various governments, state or Federal, issue permits to mine them does not confer ownership of those resources to the permit holders.

Permit holders should be viewed as corporations allowed to “extract” resources from our land, nothing more. Ergo, they should not be able to sell the asset base of what they don’t own. That is; trade the real estate itself, and what lies beneath it. Simply because, we own it - they don’t.

Now, we Australians know the reality is far removed from the above because governments over a period of decades have chiselled away at our most basic values, to a point where their smoke shovelling has masked the simplest of truths.

Indeed, what is happening in the resource extraction business these days has been made so arcane that ordinary folk have grave doubts about the prosperity of Australia Inc. So blame our managers for this, the traditional Canberra set who speak of good governance, yet are nowhere as skilled as the captains of worldly corporations(or foreign governments) wanting access to our resources.

I for one, think it is way overdue to re-write the basics in the simplest of language for how we dispose of our god given assets. After all, once they are gone nature will take a few hundred million years to give them back to us.

In the long term, a country predicated on asset sales for its prosperity, is a country doomed to failure.

This logic is so simple, yet it seems to elude so many.
# John Bradshaw
Tuesday, March 24, 2009 5:23 PM
Dear Senator Barnaby Joyce,

I believe that the total sale of OZ Minerals Ltd, Melbourne, Victoria, and its withdrawal from the Australian Stock exchange, to the China Ninmetals Non-Ferrous Metals Company Ltd, which is a 100% State owned foreign company, owned completely by the Chinese Communist Government, is in direct violation of the Australian Commonwealth Constitution granted in 1901, after agreement was reached by the 6 Australian States.
The promulgation of the 1901 Australian Federal Constitution by the 6 separate states, gave the new Federal Government of the Commonwealth of Australia, sovereignty over the EXTERNAL AFFAIRS of all the Australian States and all the Australian Territories, replacing previous British Sovereignty.

This now meant that all National Sovereignty was vested only in the new Commonwealth Government, and NO FOREIGN GOVERNMENT including the previous British Government and British Parliament, had sovereignty nor actual legal control over any land and coastline appertaining to the combined Australian States and Territorities. The sovereign ownership of the Australian mainland, sea bed and island territories, now rested only with the Australian Commonwealth Government, which was first located in Melbourne, and then moved to its present home in the Australian Capital Territory, set up for that national purpose under the provisions of the new Australian Constitution of 1901.

This means quite clearly, that NO FOREIGN GOVERNMENT nor foreign company or corporation directly representing the interests of any foreign government, can have a 100% sole ownership and monoply of any part of the Australian mainland and island territories, land which holds mines, farms, factories etc to the exclusion of Australian born citizens and their commercial interests in the national resources of Australia.

Foreign companies and foreign governments may invest in Publicly Listed companies and corporations on the Australian Stock Exchange, as either shareholders or joint stock companies etc, but no Foreign Government nor foreign company, nor an Australian Company representing it, can under the Australian Constitution directly own Sovereign Australian Commonwealth and State territory, especially to the exclusion of Australian private investors registered with the Australian Stock Market as having shares in that company, for example OZ Minerals.
It is illegal for a FOREIGN GOVERNMENT to have a monoply ownership and monoply contol over the Mineral Resources to be found and mined on the sovereign territority of the Australian Mainland.

Also just recently ABC Televsion News, showed that the Chinese Government had set up a Scientific and para-military base within Australian Antartic Territory, with the Rudd Government turning a blind eye to this breach of Australian Antartic Territory!

Under the Australian Constitution the only exception to sovereignty relates to the setting up of foreign embassies on Australian National territory, but even this right under international law can be revoked if that embassy is found to be undertaking illegal terrorist or criminal activity, eg., the closure of the Libya Embassy in Canberra.

To allow a 100% monopoly by a foreign government of any part of the Australian mainland, especially land that has Australian Government and State Government issued mining leases granted over it, you would require a Constitutional amendment to the 1901 Australian Commonwealth Constitution. Only if this referendum was successfully supported by the voting public to change the Constitution by a majority of voters in all States of the Commonwealth could you then change the Constitution in favour of foreign government ownership over sovereign Australian land.
THis Referendum would fail in Australia as it would fail in China and America.

If the Chinese Government owned companies want to invest in Australia they can buy shares on the Australian Stock Exchange like all other foreign owned cvompanies, but to try and obtain a 100% monopoly of Australian natural resources to the monopolistic exclusion of other, especially Australian investors, and to take that Company OFF the market to make it their sole preserve and Chinese Government MONOPOLY is not only directed against our territorial sovereignty embodied in the 1901 Constitution, but is undoubtly illegal in regard to various statutory Parliament Acts relating to illegal monopoly practices and in violation of the Fair Practices Act.
Even the American PINE GAP anti-missile defence facility in Northern Australia is a jointbase between America and Australia, and although leased by the USA military, the Australian Government has sovereignty over this base and the land that it is situated upon. It is not a USA Government 100% monopoly in violation of the Australian Constitution.

Ex-Treasurer Costello at the last election said there was $70 Billion in the Futures Fund. Where has the money gone ? If there is any money left in the Futures Fund, can it be used as a short term emergency infra-structure loan to finance such companies such as OZ Minerals. Perhaps the new Rudd BANK could adopt a positive attitude to companies that are a vital part of Australian infrastructure and raw material resources and which are a vital part of Australia's real life NATIONAL SECURITY.

I believe that because previous Labor and Liberal Governments have allowed massive Chinese, Indian and other Asian migration to Australia, they now represent 30% of the total population of the major Australian cities such as Sydney and Melbourne, and because the Australian University Education System has been re-built around foreign, fee paying Asian students from India, China, Hong Kong, Indonesia, Thailand, Malaya, South Korea and Taiwan, the CHINESE GOVERNMENT has undoubtly come to the conclusion that Australia is RIPE FOR DIRECT CHINESE GOVERNMENT PENETRATION !
Hence the aggressive bid to gain complete monopolistic control of OZ MINERALS LTD, Australia.

If Tibet is totally owned and controlled by the Chinese Communist Government in Beijing, why not Australia and its resouces, not by MILITARY ATTACK like the JAPANESE Government tried during the Second World War, but by monopolistic control of Australian raw material resources, with a very large and commercially aggresssive Chinese population living within Australia, and working hard to expand Chinese government commercial, cultural, educational and political influence within Australia.
In Tibet , the Chinese Government has completed a massive railway that will greatly facilitate the successful exploitation of Tibetan raw material resources
but without consultation with the local Tibetan people, who are now an ethnic minority in their own country.
The recent Olympic torch relay in Canberra, and the clash between the Chinese community and Tibetan students in 2008, demonstrated how well organised and well financed were the Chinese student groups, who like Mao's old Red Guards, were bused into Canberra in huge numbers from Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne by the Chinese Embassy to successfully shout down any Anti-Chinese protests.

One Indian woman tourist and her husband, interviewed on television news after seeing the huge crowds of Chinese in Canberra carrying not Australian flags but the Communist Chinese Red Flag and drowning out Tibetan protestors in the streets of Canberra, said she was shocked at the overwhelming presence of Chinese people demonstrating in the National Australian Capital, Canberra, against Tibetan independence and human rights.

However, the Rudd Labor Government and the ACT Government passively accepted the political manipulation and crowd control directly organised by the Chinese Embassy and its representatives in the Chinese university student bodies in Australian Capital cities.
It was a very effective example of the influence that the Chinese Government now exercises in the Australian community. Even PM Rudd has said. that while in America he will argue for greater Chinese influence over decisions made by the International Monetary Fund. Why does not Rudd argue for greater Australian influence. After all, Rudd is Prime Minister of Australia and not China.

Its about time Australia stopped foreign ownership and control of Australian raw material resources, and its about time we stopped all migration from India and China and elsewhere in Asia and the Moslem Middle East.

Its about time, Australians born in this country of Australia, grew up and started acting like political adults and built up this country round Australian born people, rather than unsuccessfully organising Australia to suit the multi-cultural and alien demands of FOREIGNERS NOT BORN IN THIS COUNTRY.

Thank you, ( 24/3/09 ).
# Chris Charles
Tuesday, March 24, 2009 6:39 PM
This is really interesting. Kevin Rudd has held secret talks at The Lodge with a senior Chinese Communist Party member and ONLY Chinese TV crews were invited.
Sorry I can't provide a direct link to the video but ...
Google "Rudd's secret Chinese talks" - include the quotation marks in your search for accuracy.

Tell me he's not up to no good.

And why do the Chinese govt need our Kev to do THEIR bidding in the USA?

Why isn't he doing OUR bidding?

How much time does he get exactly with the top US pollies?

Surely it's not long enough to do all of our bidding as well as that of the Chinese, is it?

Is he the Australian Prime Minister or is he just a stooge for China?
He needs to be pulled into line right now.

We didn't elect him to represent the Communist Party Of China in their international affairs.Who does he think he is?

This fair dinkum stinks.

A very bad day for Australia, I reckon.
# Chris Charles
Tuesday, March 24, 2009 6:49 PM
And here's what 'The Australian' had to say about Kevin's secret Chinese meeting:

Link: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25232846-25837,00.html

I really think he's overstepped the line this time. He's a sneaky manipulative, greedy man who has no interest in what's best for the country that my parents and their generation fought to protect.

He'll sell us out in a heartbeat if he thinks he can promote his career or make a fast buck out of it.

I wouldn't normally say this about a Member of Parliament, especially the Prime Minister but, Kevin Rudd is a dog.

I hope Malcolm Turnbull gets his act together on this and tears bloody shreds off of Rudd for doing this. It is an absolute disgrace to the Australian electorate.
# Garry
Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:04 PM
Excellent post John Bradshaw....excellent. It probably conveys what a lot of Australians already have on their minds, but can't quite express in clear terms.

As with Senator Joyce's approach to sovereign issues, where at the present time many spectators think he has the appearance of reflecting the "power of one", at least in the political arena, the expression of your own views, although wider in scope, also make for good starting points for serious discussion

In the wider picture, this whole business of our political leaders long time neglect of sovereign issues has to come to a head sometime - It is time bomb


Also, I did infer some of this in a previous post, via the few lines high lighted below. So I'm aware of what you suggest. Indeed far too aware of some of the specifics .........

"" Now, we Australians know the reality is far removed from the above because governments over a period of decades have chiselled away at our most basic values, to a point where their smoke shovelling has masked the simplest of truths. ""

As you say, at the time of Federation in 1901 our founding fathers were all too aware of sovereign issues, yet since that time, government after government has been chiselling away at them. Especially since WW2, where each and every three or four year political term has resulted in a contribution to the erosion.

We are badly governed by short termist policies ...That's my view



# Garry
Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:32 PM
Fellow contributors, please don’t let this descend into a bar room discussion by expressing one’s social views on a given political identity, especially Prime Minister Rudd, who at the moment, by his very actions appears to be going through some of the steps towards digging his own political grave. As did John Howard during the latter part of his innings. And much the same as his successor, Mr Telfon, has been doing for months.

Rather let their footprints tell a story

After all, Mr Rudd might have been interrupted by an urgent need to practice his Mandarin. Thus the quiet stop over in China
# ken
Wednesday, March 25, 2009 1:31 AM
A few years ago we sold off mount isa to Xtrata (not listed on the asx).
How smart was that??????
# David
Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:07 AM
Dear Senator Joyce,

Having watched the TV News last night (Tuesday) I was appalled that the Australian Prime Minister had a secret meeting with the Chinese etc. I'm appalled that we have a prime minister that can speak their language and unfortunately, we don't know what was raised during this meeting at this point-in-time.

As the Australian Parliament is now in recess until the May 12 Budget, there is now, an obligation on Mr Rudd to make a statement to the parliament when it sits again re his meeting and generally, the trip to the US.

You have my full support and our resources need to be kept in Australian hands not others. We should also remind ourselves of the hunger by the Chinese goverment to increase its military presence within the Indian Ocean and its plans to increase its military size as stated several months in a media report.
# Peter M
Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:31 AM
Barnaby

We met here in Brisbane a few weeks ago and I support your economic views on the management of this country. Like David above I'm appalled that the Australian media had to hear secondhand that a private meeting was had between Rudd and China's number 5. The federal Labor government will need to get money from somewhere to fund it's extravagances and it's my bet they're looking to China. Rudd is the new Whitlam and I have little doubt that the new Khemlani will be a foreign government employee. There is much to be said for foreign investment, but it needs to be restricted to the current level and strengthened to preclude foreign government owned businesses. The level playing field notion springs to mind as a guideline. If the business in question is privately owned then government owned enterprises from overseas should be excluded from buying any shares at all.
# adrian moorhouse
Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:38 AM
I am an Aussie presently on holidays in Singapore and I was appalled to read, on line, that KRUDD had a SECRET meeting with the 4th most powerful man in the Chinese Government. No doubt a 'secret' deal was being organised to sell off Australia. The members of the Coalition Party had been invited as the meeting would have been held in Chinese therefore no-one else would have been able to hear the sell-out.
Maybe we should sell KRUDD out to the Chinese along with the rest of the front bench of the Government and get rid of all the sarcasm and sniping during Question Time.
The sale of Rio Tinto to foreign ownership MUST STOP and I support Barnaby Jones in his endeavours to Labor Government's action on this.
# David Adler
Wednesday, March 25, 2009 7:31 AM
Sell China the milk - not the cow!

Where is the common sense in this equation?
# Judy Sutton
Wednesday, March 25, 2009 7:32 AM
Please stop the Chinese purchasing our precious reserves.

What is Rudd's ultimate plan?
# Cate Travers
Wednesday, March 25, 2009 7:54 AM
This is Australia, if Rudd thinks China is so great, why doesn't he leave Australia to Australians who love and want the best for its citizens and future Australians.
Keep up the pressure!!!
# Kim harrold
Wednesday, March 25, 2009 7:56 AM
I am and always will be a Labor supporter but I guess any political party cannot please everyone and in this instance I am not happy with the Chinese purchasing our minerals, the very stuff that has made our country the way it is today.
# John
Wednesday, March 25, 2009 7:58 AM
We approve of your stance of keeping Australian mining assets in Australian hands. China's role, if given access to this asset would be like having a foreign country challenging our own government.
# Vittoria Hill
Wednesday, March 25, 2009 7:59 AM
Please keep up the good fight.
# BJ McGee
Wednesday, March 25, 2009 8:03 AM
Where do I sign the petition !
# Jaeson BRACHE
Wednesday, March 25, 2009 8:08 AM
Keep up the good work Barnaby, Rudd cannot be trusted & makes you wonder what he is really up to with the need for secret meetings! China should be stopped from gaining larger stakes in our mineral reserves, as it would be detrimental to our future.
# Mark Waterhouse
Wednesday, March 25, 2009 8:10 AM
Hi Barnaby.
I have three children and am on a minimal wage however if you need finacial help to get your message accross about the china take over. I would be willing to share some of the money my family received as a result of the stymulus package, to help pay for the TV, Radio etc. I want a future for my kids in this country and your the only one who seems to be fighting for it.
Thankyou Mark
# Gary
Wednesday, March 25, 2009 8:33 AM
I agree with this petition. Lets not sell off assets of national importance to foreingers.
# Damien Willans
Wednesday, March 25, 2009 8:34 AM
I am appalled at the hide of Tom and his cronies. Rio was arrogant and foolish to buy Alcan when they did. Alcan CEO Dick Evans must have come up with some deal to convince Rio to buy them at $100 a share - when the market price was $60 !!. This was done to protect Alcan from a move by Alcoa, and Rio from BHP - not because it made economic sense. Rio should be made to pay for their poor business decisions like any other company in the market. By the way, Dick just walked away with ~$15 million in his retirement fund. Thanks Dick. Rio is no friend of Australia - I was one of about 300 they unceremoniously sacked in the week before christmas in the Brisbane (ex-Alcan) engineering office. They have no interest in maintaining a well run company - they are only interested in keeping their management positions and sacking the people that keep them running. Selling to the Chinese only helps them stay running inefficiently and without regard to good business practice. In years to come Rio's aluminium and Alumina assets will disintegrate and become expensive white elephants - becuase they just sacked many hundreds of years of collective experience required to keep them running properly. I am shaking with disgust at these idiots.
# Harriet Galagher
Wednesday, March 25, 2009 8:41 AM
Thank God we have someone like you, Barnaby, to stand up for our rights, and for common sense. We must stop this deal with Chinalco. Almost 50% of the population (outside of the cities) can see what Labor is doing to this country. The other 50% (in the cities) have their heads firmly planted in the sand and have embraced the Govt handouts and socialism, and it seems there is nothing we can do to turn the tide. God help Australia, because we can't. And thank you Barnaby for standing up for us.
# peter brown
Wednesday, March 25, 2009 9:09 AM

Hi, As a RIO and OZL shareholder I certainly have a lot at stake financially at the moment. Self interest would probably see me supporting both these "investments".

Trouble is, I feel that these assets are not OURS to sell. They belong as much to our children as to us. The fact that the investment is a Sovereign one, seals the "NO" argument for me.

The biggest question is why the large Australian Super funds can't see the long term value of investing in our resource sector more heavily? Particularly now, when "buy in" prices re so so ludicrously cheap.


# rodney allsworth
Wednesday, March 25, 2009 9:10 AM
then rudd gives a private -except for the chinese media- talks to a high ranking communist, and immediatly heads off to the US. why was the chinese talks linked to rudd going straight to the US president, one hopes we are not becoming another infamous triangle, or, 3 amigoes,when a prime minister hides such high ranking talks from the australian public, something very unhealthy is in the wind,we could well be sold out to chinese and US rescource industralists who want control of OUR lands wealth that belongs to ALL AUSTRALIANS,
# Jeff Betts
Wednesday, March 25, 2009 9:16 AM
If OZ minerals goes broke which is the likely result of the untimely marriage of Oxiana and Ziniflex, what happens to the assets? There is much talk of massive unemployment which I presume also means a massive under utilisation of the resources currently in the care of OZL. If we are unable to find the finance to fully utilise our resources do we just leave them in the ground and allow overseas suppliers to fill the void? Surely the complex world we now live in requires a little more intelligient debate than the emotive arguments Barnaby evokes. Very few people anticipated this financial disaster and certainly the mining industry did not. If the only finance available for developing our resources must come from overseas I would have thought the alternative was complete stupidity. The lack of intelligent debate on this issue is about as silly as the lack of decent debate on the issue of uranium mining. We want to reduce our carbon foot print but will not consider nuclear. We always want it both ways.
# bryan philliups
Wednesday, March 25, 2009 9:59 AM
It is in Australia's interest to make sure that both Rio and BHP-Billiton are the price makers in iron ore production.

If the Chinese are able to become the leading price maker for this commodity and BHP-Billiton becomes a price taker as a result, the cost to Australia wil become very big and the implications long term for both the country and the shareholders in both companies.
# Mrs. N. Nicholson
Wednesday, March 25, 2009 10:18 AM
Dear Mr. Joyce,

Thank you for giving us - the Australian People - the opportunity to voice our opinions. I cannot understand our Politicians who would want to support such an act as to sell off part of a core industry. We all need to stop this action - it cannot happen. Our children and grand childrens futures depend on our actions today.

Thank you.
# Garry
Wednesday, March 25, 2009 10:58 AM

"" If we are unable to find the finance to fully utilise our resources do we just leave them in the ground and allow overseas suppliers to fill the void? ""


The short answer to this question is "Yes" - Better to leave them in the ground for the benefit of future generations rather than allow ill equipped venturers to access them today - let alone foreign entities.

Mineral resources are finite, and their extraction should be predicated on sustainable long term policies, not just jobs in the here and now. After all, we are supposed to be caretakers for future generations.

# Paul Zegenhagen
Wednesday, March 25, 2009 11:25 AM
I cannot understand how our Politicians would do such a thing as as to sell off all our assetts to overseas countries. It appears that both sides of politics are letting us down. Keep up the good work Barnaby.
# Annie Carroll
Wednesday, March 25, 2009 11:27 AM
Hi Barnaby,

I am not a National Party voter, but I would like to thank you for your action on this very vital issue. Anyone who cares about human rights should be against the Australian Government allowing the Chinese Government from owning any assets in Australia.

Are readers of your website aware that the South African Government have recently refused the Dalai Lama a visa to take part in a Peace Conference in South Africa (to coincide with the World Cup)? The South African Government have stated they have 'nothing against' the Dalai Lama, but they don't want to jeapordise their economic relationship with China.

Democratic countries need to take a moral stand against Human Rights abuses by the Chinese Government (whether these are abuses that take place inside or outside of China). Selling off vital assets to China is a danger to us, but also a danger to every democratic country in the World.

# Mr L. Walker
Wednesday, March 25, 2009 11:50 AM
Thank you for your efforts senator. It is crazy to think some people sitting in another country can get get control of a good viable Aussie company, get it into so much debt and then have the effrontery (gall) to try and sell off some of the assets to a company owned by another country. There would be companies,investment funds,super funds and probably the private investor around australia would jump at the chance to get a piece of the action if it was put to the aussie share market. Keep up the good work.
# A Wareham
Wednesday, March 25, 2009 12:31 PM
The question that I would like to ask the directors of Rio Tinto is:
"Why would they have refused BHP Billiton's offer to purchase the company at a very realistic price and then turn around and try to sell key assets to another country?"
It simply does not make sense?

That is, other than the possibility that they were trying to feather their own nest.
Wednesday, March 25, 2009 12:50 PM
If we continue to allow our assets to be bought by foreigners (by whatever means), Australia will be the poorer for it. I was against the North West Shelf being taken over by Shell, a Dutch Company. Fortunately this was blocked by our Government at the time regardless of the Foreign Investment Review Board's recommendation to the contrary. The same decision should be made in respect to Chinalco.

We are exporting too much of our wealth and jobs overseas. It has to stop, and the more people like Barnaby Joyce who can educate Australians to think and voice their opinions and act, just may help to stop it. Keep up the good work Barnaby Joyce with your advertising, etc.
# Paul
Wednesday, March 25, 2009 1:11 PM
About time that someone stood up for Australia as it seems that the Krudd Government although calling for us to buy Australian does not hold this to binding on the Government and to sell off more of our resources is just driving another nail in the coffin. From what Ive seen the present Government is hell bent on making Australia another puppet state of whatever country has the most money be that America, China or whoever. Maybe they should put a big sign just inside our territorial waters asking for offers over $1.00 for the whole shebang, save them having to go through the charade of "approving" the deals . Keep up the good work and score as many points against the Government as possible.
# Dean
Wednesday, March 25, 2009 1:26 PM
Barnaby you might want to keep a very close eye on whats happening in the gas industry in Queensland (especially CSG/LNG).
# Jack
Wednesday, March 25, 2009 5:09 PM
Rio management should be ashamed selling out like this. They refused BHP deal and then the economy went south so they just trying to save their own butts now.They bought alcan at the top of the market and will ultimately pay for the mistake-THEIR mistake. good on you Barnaby, behind you 100%. I cant blame the Chinese for making a play for Rio assets but this cant be allowed to happen to such a huge company.
# Dave
Wednesday, March 25, 2009 5:12 PM
No-one has said where this online petition is. You would think there would be a link on the page discussing the petition, or that yu could google it.

Where the hell is it? How can it be in the news and publicised before it even exists?
# Veronica
Wednesday, March 25, 2009 5:17 PM
Senator Joyce, thank you for sticking up for our Country and your fellow Australians. Our family is disgusted that the Rudd government is even thinking of selling out any more of our assets to any other country. I'm sure there would have been and uproar if Mr. Rudd's secret meeting with the Chinese, last weekend had been reported while the Queensland election was in full swing.
# Bob WRIGHT
Wednesday, March 25, 2009 5:48 PM
Senator Joyce. I am very concerned about the possibility of the Chinese Government buying into the resource that Australia owns and is selling. what will happen if this proposal is approved and the fine print in the terms and conditions of the approval are not clear and concise and we, as Australian, may in the future, have a Chinese Diplomatic situation, in that, Chinalco bring their own workers to the operation, pay them a pittance and the Australian Government can not do a thing about it. i heard today that the ACCC has no objections to the proposal. I am very concerned about this and hope that the proposal is blocked at all levels.
# wayne moule
Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:27 PM
senator Joyce it is very concerning to see RIO slip into chinese hands I object to this craziness & I hope that the government wake's up to this move on an Australian resource company and the many jobs that will lost if this goes ahead. best regards . W Moule. 25/3/ 2009 1926PM
# lita
Wednesday, March 25, 2009 7:07 PM
I would like to sign this petition but can't find it. Where is it so that I can add my name to others who are concerned about Australian resources being able to be bought by so many overseas countries especially China. Keep up the good work in your endeavour to stop this.
# John McDonald
Wednesday, March 25, 2009 7:19 PM
Well I never thought I would see the day,but here I am on Barnaby's website agreeing with him.I dont want a communist China with sus
human rights owning any part of Rio.If Rudd,Swan,Smith and the rest
of the government go along with this greater share grab then I will help vote them out just as I helped vote them in.And you can run that though your filter Conroy.
# Peter William Hoh
Wednesday, March 25, 2009 7:53 PM
Senator Joyce,
As an Australian with Chinese ancestry, YOU GOT MY VOTE on this issue!
The willingness of our governments both past and current MUST BE TEMPERED BY ensuring our sovereign interests be retained.
Singapore, Brunei and now China have pillaged our interests with not so much as a whimper from politicians including yourself until now. The market's willingness is short term and hip pocket driven relative to current stock prices. We will regret this sale in later years.
The entrenchment of Chinese political ownership of our resources MUST NOT BE ALLOWED simply because THEY CANNOT BE TRUSTED. These are people who run over their own citizens with tanks! These are people who send in troops to Tibet to quell a passive race. What is to stop their so called protection of Chinese National interests with armed threats on our sovereignty if they ever have issues here. How do we stop potential conflict of interests as well as transfer pricing activities?
Yes this may be a two faced argument given the easy entry provided to Singapore and Brunei BUT they are not A COMMUNIST SUPERPOWER!
The Rio acquisition provides cheap infrastructure access if we do a simple balance sheet of Rio earning potential plus money saved from the rail and port facilities availed to THEIR OTHER ACQUISITION.
The Australian voting public are NOT ALL STUPID.
Keep yelling and scoring the runs mate.
# Simon Gilbey
Wednesday, March 25, 2009 9:59 PM
Senator Joyce,

People look to you as the only voice of sensible loyal Australians as it would appear the rest of our leaders talk cheap. Hard decisions need to be made about the current investment processes in Australian resources and we need someone to stand up and be counted for our childrens sake. The continous dilution of Australian Ownership of its own resource assests is laughable to the rest of the world. How does a forgien governments ownership of teir 1 assests allow for the competitive pricing of those goods in years to come when our children require the taxation associated with those resources to enable them to live in a equitable fashion to that in whih we have enjoyed. The chinese are rightly looking out for their own interests, they would like to source resources cheaply to develop their own country at the lowest possible cost. However this is directly opposed to the future proserity of our own people. These resources will run out, we need to maintain the price of these resources for as long as possible to develop a future for our children we have no other competive advantage, the costs of living in this vast dry continent are very high the appreciation of what it will cost to develop our own economy is not being appreciated in this great sell at the bottom of the market. The buyer owning these resources will not enable full value thus taxation to be returned it doesn't make equitable sense for our children. Ask RIO if its current shreholders would like to participate, sell some shares back on the Aussie Market we are normally at 30% premium to the british shareholdings any way. The loss of this company is heartbreaking, the people that put it in this position are still running the company are still making the crappy decisions they bought at the peak and sell at the bottom!!!
Surely anything Albanese says here on should be treated with contempt. Two great Australian powers CRA and North Limited have been squandered by this man when will we say enough is enough there is no value in this for this countries Children. Albanese worries only for his self interest while the rest of us worry about our countries future and generations to come, how is that fair.
# ann mara
Wednesday, March 25, 2009 10:22 PM
Dear Sir,
Thank you for the opportunity to voice our concern over the Chinaloco take- over. Our reasons may sound petty and feeble but slowly but shorly we are being taken over, all with the 'holy dollar'. The day will come when we will have to go cap in hand to China just to be allowed to live in our country. Does Mr Rudd have our interest at heart when he had his secret meeting with a communist leader? He was elected Prime Minister and was supposed to look after Australians interests not China's. Our innovative companys are all closing up shop and moving all to China as well. When will it all end.
# Garry
Wednesday, March 25, 2009 10:55 PM

Today’s timing with the ACCC giving its blessing to the Chinalco deal seems rather like a perfect coincidence with PM Rudds weekend arrangement with China to go to bat for them during his current session in Washington.

They must be very pleased with him in Beijing – Having his regulators marching in lockstep, and all.

Talk about John Howard losing the plot with the Australian electorate, it looks to me that Kevin Rudd is now on the path to beating him hands down.
# Greg
Thursday, March 26, 2009 6:14 AM
Keep fighting Barnaby, you have the support of most Australians.
May as well scrap the ACCC, they don't do anything for us Australians.
Quite coincidentle that Mr Rudd speaks "Mandarin", don't you think?
# Sydney Lawrence
Thursday, March 26, 2009 7:22 AM
Lap dogs to our Chinese masters. That looks to be the way it is heading. We see Kevin Rudd and Obama in a cuddle to turn our countries into socialist, with Government control of everything. Good try Barnaby but I fear it is too late, much to the sorrow of our children and grandchildren.
# Craig Wood
Thursday, March 26, 2009 7:50 AM
It is refreshing to see that Barnaby is looking at the larger and long term economic impact that the RioTinto /Chinalco would have on the broader Australian economy. The treats that Rio Tionot would have to retrench a further 2000 people does not stack up against the tens of thousands of jobs which would not be created in Australia over the next decaded due to chinese governement pressure to ensure commoditiy prices remain extremely low so they can maximise the profit generated buy their manufacturinfg sector and ensure maximum empolyment in chima. The double edged sword of trade tariffs vs exports would create a political nightmare for the Australian govermanrt as it has to negotiated with its biggest trading partner.
Further more we dont see the Australian government owning commecial companies and buying assests in foreign countries. The Governments role is to ensure stable governance for the country not to be involved in commercial business dealings.
# Craig Wood
Thursday, March 26, 2009 7:50 AM
It is refreshing to see that Barnaby is looking at the larger and long term economic impact that the RioTinto /Chinalco would have on the broader Australian economy. The treats that Rio Tionot would have to retrench a further 2000 people does not stack up against the tens of thousands of jobs which would not be created in Australia over the next decaded due to chinese governement pressure to ensure commoditiy prices remain extremely low so they can maximise the profit generated buy their manufacturinfg sector and ensure maximum empolyment in chima. The double edged sword of trade tariffs vs exports would create a political nightmare for the Australian govermanrt as it has to negotiated with its biggest trading partner.
Further more we dont see the Australian government owning commecial companies and buying assests in foreign countries. The Governments role is to ensure stable governance for the country not to be involved in commercial business dealings.
# margaret
Thursday, March 26, 2009 8:56 AM
Thank you for Barnaby taking a stand on this issue which will have dire consequences for Australia if it goes ahead.
# Kelly
Thursday, March 26, 2009 9:34 AM
Are you crazy, what about our kids future? Me and my husband are considering buying all our kids their own houses and cars to make sure their set for the future because if you sell out to the Chinese, we're screwed. You don't honestly think that if you sell out our mines that their going to consider our lives? This is crazy please, please don't do this.
# Hector
Thursday, March 26, 2009 9:53 AM
Mate its to hard to find your petition. I am a bit gumby and on computers and it needs an obviouse link.
# MAX STEVENS
Thursday, March 26, 2009 10:32 AM
Dear Sir

I absolutley agree with you on this very important issue, we welcome China as a trading partner, but we must keep Australia in Australian ownership, if we allow foriegn investment it should allways be limited to a minority holding im the companies concerned.
# Robyn Bushell
Thursday, March 26, 2009 10:41 AM
Myself, husband Rick and my mother Edith Jackett support you on this matter.
Please keep on this matter.
# Garry
Thursday, March 26, 2009 11:11 AM

Here's a short summary of about 50 major projects owned or controlled by foreign entities. In reality it's a fragment of the larger picture, which will be found to be many orders of magnitude beyond this tiny list

Nevertheless, a walk through this particular one is sobering.


http://www.maynereport.com/articles/2007/07/17-2040-8377.html



# Dot & Family-26-3-09
Thursday, March 26, 2009 12:05 PM
Have you TOTALLY lost the plot KEVIN RUDD - What about our kid's future????- We MUST keep Australia Australian Owned. We totally back you Barnaby - and stop this at all costs - thankyou for giving us the opportunity to voice our opinion which is VERY STRONG.
# Nicole Milatos
Thursday, March 26, 2009 1:04 PM
Lets keep as much of Australia as possible
# Jodie Baker and family
Thursday, March 26, 2009 1:19 PM
i agree with hector, it is a bit hard to find the petition.

Lets stop Rudd from making a huge mistake. my family and i have spent some time debating this at home, horrified at the stupidity of Rudd. we fully support you on this issue Barnaby.

# Brian Cannon
Thursday, March 26, 2009 1:46 PM
To reduce their debt the Rio Tinto Board should do a Rights Issue of 1 billion shares at $ 30.00 per share and they will be oversubscribed.
# Jack Flanigan
Thursday, March 26, 2009 2:43 PM
I have signed the petition and am prepared to do more if needed.

I entirely agree with what you have said and endorse the comments that have been posted herein.
Australians need to appreciate that the Chinese "communist" government is a brutal totalitarian regime that oppresses it citizens and it has no intention of reform. We cannot allow this brutal regime to control our mineral resources. If we do then we have betrayed future generations of Australians.
Good on you Barnaby,. Keep at it

regards,

Jack Flanigan
# marilyn
Thursday, March 26, 2009 2:53 PM
I congratulate you for having our future and my grand-children future by standing up to the Rudd government re sale of Rio Tinto. It was suggested to me one time we get the government we deserve, hopefully we deserve better and show the current one the door.
# rob keen
Thursday, March 26, 2009 6:09 PM
I can only see that "UNCLE" Kev ,because he likes the Chinese,wants us to become their southern most province.
We give the Chinese enough in cash for goods don`t let the buggers sell our land off as well to them!!!!!
Go get them Barnaby, I`m with you all the way
Rob Keen
# Chris Charles
Thursday, March 26, 2009 6:23 PM

Hi All,

The comments you have all made are fantastic to read. It's bloody good to hear so many Australians making their voices heard on this most important of issues.

I'm posting this simply to remind you all to EMAIL the link to this forum to ALL of your friends.

Encourage them to READ the previous posts as they portray what is happening, not only in relation to the critical RIO issue, but also on a bigger scale as more and more of Australia is sold out from under us.

It is so important that we don't just sit quietly and let it happen. Australians need to UNITE and SPEAK OUT. IF you don't want the Communist Chinese Government down here telling you how to live your lives, we need to ACT NOW.

If you don't no what that means exactly, go to:

http://www.abc.net.au/foreign/default.htm

- and watch the episode "The Big Smoke". See what you think of their way of life compared with our own.

For those that are interested, I have been told there is a new Australian web forum about to be launched to specifically address all of the issues that successive governments of this country have chosen to ignore or mismanage to this country's detriment.

From industry, infrastructure and resource sell-offs to agricultural and environmental issues and of course, social engineering will get a big mention.

Apparently, it will be a very good site and most importantly, you will be able to make your voice heard all year round. Not just once every 3 years at election time as has always happened up until now.

If you are sick and tired of this country being just 'lucky' and not the 'great' country that it potentially could be, keep your eye on this thread for more details in the coming week.

It's no good sitting around moaning about the situation, we need to get united and make ourselves heard. As Don Chipp said regularly, we need to "keep the bastards honest".

I understand constitutional experts and legal professionals will be contributing to this new forum providing an insight into what can be done to stop the rot.

Please express your interest here and remember to forward this link on to as many people as possible. Many Australians simply do not even the consequences of what is happening.

Thanks again to Senator Barnaby Joyce for getting the ball rolling and making it clear that, as Australians, many of us are not prepared to sit by while this government continues to allow the sell off of this country that our forefathers (and mothers!) fought to preserve and hand on to us.

We need to do the same for the generations of our children and grandchildren before it is simply too late.

And finally, thanks to Channels 7, 9, 10 - your efforts to inform Australians about all of this has been about as big as a mozzie bite on a bull's backside.

Anyone for even more updates on Britney Spears or Brad and Angelina? And you call yourselves NEWS providers! What a joke the three of you are. You should be ashamed of what you offer as 'news'. It's rubbish.

While our country is in tremendous peril of losing control of every asset of any worth, all you can do is fill viewers with a incessant diet of celebrity gossip!

Shame on you for creating such a convenient distraction. As you gradually achieve your assigned objective, the 'dumbing down' of the populus, those elected to represent and serve us carve the place up beneath us.

PLEASE EMAIL THIS LINK AND WATCH OUT FOR THE NEW FORUM.
# Chris Charles
Thursday, March 26, 2009 7:37 PM
What is up with the Chinese Connection and the ALP? How convenient that so little of this was public knowledge BEFORE the election.

First, we had Kevin Rudd speaking fluent Mandarin. Fair enough. Could even prove useful if he was on our side.

Then we've got the Minister for Climate Change and Water, Penny Wong. Signing Kyoto, off to the Bali Summit, promising big emission cuts pre-election ...and then came the back flip. (How's that 5% C02 cap looking, Penny? Good?)

Now, we've got the Minister for Defence, Joel Fitzgibbon having a long term 'friendship' with a Chinese business woman, having her banking details on his computer and admitting to have accepted gifts from her while not denying also that he may have accepted trips to Beijing paid for by Ms Liu's company. Seems some Defence Personnel seem to consider JF a security risk. I guess you'd have to...

And earlier today we had the nation's competition watchdog inflaming the debate on foreign investment in Australia by suggesting ALL state-owned Chinese companies SHOULD BE considered "subsidiaries" controlled by the same parent.

The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission, chaired by Graeme Samuel, last night approved Chinalco's $US19.5 billion ($28 billion) investment in Rio Tinto and a group of its mining projects, saying it did not raise competition concerns and would not lead to Chinese control of commodity prices.

However, the regulator noted that its "working assumption" during deliberations was that "Chinalco and various Chinese steelmakers COULD be treated as subsidiaries of the same parent entity, and therefore MAY HAVE common commercial interests".

OK Graeme, ... but wouldn't that be a CONTRADICTORY DECISION? If your 'working assumption' was, "that they are colluding and have common commercial interests under the same parent", then it is YOUR JOB to veto the deal.

Why would you then go and let the deal go through? Did you just get confused and stuff it up?

Their should be a public inquiry into this outcome based upon Samuel's highly irregular comments.

I am totally baffled.

Somebody tell me, ...what is going on with the ALP's China Conection?

There is MUCH more going on than meets the eye and it all smells foul.
# Chris Charles
Thursday, March 26, 2009 7:43 PM
And of course, I neglected to mention Our Kev's top secret meeting with the Chinese Communist Party's Minister for Propaganda the other day.

Top secret if you are an Australian journalist, anyway. Not so, if you are from China's CCTV - they were invited to cover this exclusive affair for everyone back home to see.

What's Kevvy hiding?
# Garry
Thursday, March 26, 2009 7:51 PM
Chris Charles - Here’s a repeat of a link from a previous post. It should be understood, we have already lost control of our assets !

http://www.maynereport.com/articles/2007/07/17-2040-8377.html



Since the above list is a minor revelation compared to what is happening in the bigger picture, I for one think it's about time we started afresh.

That is, re-write the rule book on foreign investment and bring some transparency to the conversation, and if in the process, we lose some global interest as a push-over mining destination, so be it. Better to readily face up to the prospect of withstanding a degree of economic suffering in the here and now, than one day in the future realise we are mere serfs.

As it stands, we haven't even got 20% control of our future, because at this very moment strategic industries, having vital importance in the future, are being selectively targeted by foreign entities

I'm firmly of the view that Senator Joyce's initiative "The power of one" has the potential to become a minefield for the slack politicians who harbour the idea business-as-usual can continue. Cleary it cannot, this is the information age, and people are becoming far more aware of long standing leadership deficiencies. Especially with this item - The short selling of our future, and equally important, our children’s future

Given time, the rage expressed within this recently founded web page can grow to street marches in all the capital cities. In effect - a people revolt against the continuance of slack political management

# Richard Murray
Thursday, March 26, 2009 8:13 PM
Please fill out the petition in the link below.

The Australian Government is about to allow foreign ownership of our precious mines and
resources.

This is purely a "short term" vision that will gravely effect Australia's
medium to long term financial prosperity.

If an overseas buyer of our minerals is allowed to own our minerals, then this will
greatly effect the dictated sale price of these precious resources.

Australia MUST think long term about this. We must keep Australia's prime assets for
Australia, Australians and the futures generations of Australia.

If nothing else I urge you to fill out this petition and forward it on to everyone you
know that would be measurably concerned about the foreign ownership of Australia's
sovereign land and Australia's resources.

It doesn't matter whether its the Chinese, Indonesians, French or even New Zealand.
This is ultimately irrelevant.

You simply need to ask yourself the simple question, Would you be happy to see another
Countries flag stuck in the soil of the pilbara in WA, where we "Australia" would
no longer have complete control over our own God given Territory ??? Allowing this to
happen would be a catastrophe on the grandest scale imaginable.

Please support the one Politician thats standing up for our Countries future and fill
out the petition in the link below - Thank you on behalf of Australia and Australia's
future generations.



http://www.barnabyjoyce.com.au/
Thursday, March 26, 2009 9:37 PM
I congratulate you Mr. Barnaby, and thank you for taking the stand that you are for Australia and the Australian people. I endorse your comments whole heartedly. The rate the ALP is going, there wont be anything left for our children or any future generations.
What is in the connection with the ALP and China??? I'm afraid I'm a but sus.

Thanks again Mr. Barnaby.

Regards,

Margaret.
# William Joiner
Thursday, March 26, 2009 9:42 PM
Barnaby Joice for PM !!!
# Chris Charles
Thursday, March 26, 2009 10:41 PM
G'day Garry,

I've been reading your posts with interest and think that most of what you have to say makes a great deal of sense. Not that you are alone in making sense, but you have been prolific!

I for one would be very keen to see a series of public rallies organised to protest against the further sell off of Australia. This country needs to wake up to what is going on and act now, before the Chinese own us outright and we become refugees in our own land.

No good whining about it on web forums alone, positive action is what we need to make a noise. Take it to the streets and let the voice of the people be heard. Try that on in China!

Who else thinks that public rallies (peaceful, of course) are the way to go? How would we go about organising these events?

Australia has done nothing for too long about the selling off of its natural wealth and it's time to make a change.

NO MORE FOREIGN OWNERSHIP OF SOVEREIGN RESOURCES. THEY BELONG TO FUTURE GENERATIONS AS WELL.

WHY SELL THE GOOSE THAT LAYS THE GOLDEN EGG?

LEASE IT, DON"T SELL IT.

GET SMART. BUILD REFINERIES AND INFRASTRUCTURE IN AUSTRALIA AND VALUE-ADD BEFORE WE EXPORT.
# Pauline
Friday, March 27, 2009 12:15 AM
More importantly for most of you reading everyones comments,thousands of Australian jobs will be saved if Minmetals take over. I cant see our government supporting the families that could lose their jobs if this does not go through. I understand everyones options but as a person/wife in the mining game i have seen take over where is it worked out for the better - we did not make it a public affair when xstrata brought out mount isa mines (mim), what about the others?? do you really see our government lending its hand out to the 2nd biggest mine in australia -- no i think not...
If OZ minerals goes broke, what happens to the assets and families and workers with no money??? have you thought of a back up plan for these workers???? I BET YOU HAVE NOT!!!!, you probably only skim through all our comments .......
If australia canot support or finance our resources do we just leave them in the ground?? why not let some of the overseas suppliers to fill the void?
we all knew the mining sector boom wasnot a long term situation but I can tell you we never thought it would dop this bad...
The lack of intelligent debate on this issue is just stupid, yes there is concerns about what will this do to our country remembering we are a mulircutural society .......... if the people from oz minerals do it right they would put in place the requirements that would suit the workers and the families.....Lets give them some credit.. like i said before what about the other countries that have brought our mines and etc
why is this so bad???? its only two mines...rit Tinto is only 18% and ozminerals maybe 100% OMG peoples let this happen - so sentor its a GO GO GO for me,
please look at the hospital and other health care systems like aged care which is in desperate need of attention
care for the oldies - as we are living longer (old) and leave the mining issue
GO GO GO with the sale of the mines
# Dave
Friday, March 27, 2009 1:46 AM
You are a complete idiot,

It's a great idea to put a petition up and get media coverage for the opposing of the deal, BUT

where the hell is the link,

Go to BARNABYS BATTLES and it's supposed to be there, but it's not, you keep looking for it clicking in circles.

I wouldn't be surprised if half the people wanting to sign can't find it.

Would it be too hard to have an actual link to the online petition on a blog telling people to sign the petition?

MAKE A LINK ON THE HOMEPAGE! OR SEVERAL
# Dave
Friday, March 27, 2009 1:52 AM
Actually it was on the homepage haha, never looked there cause the link was supposed to be on barnabys battles and the blog doesn't refer to where it is.

So if like me you're looking through this page trying like an idiot to find it in all the places you've been told, it's not there it's on the home page. Blue tab (Petition).

ADD a link at the top of this page and in BARNABYS BATTLES
# Chris Charles
Friday, March 27, 2009 9:11 AM
Pauline,
So as long as your hubbie is all right in the short term, that's the main thing, is it? Is that what you are really saying? Are you that completely self-centred?

You claim there's a "lack of intelligent debate" on the topic. I'd agree. Between Rudd, Swan, the federal Opposition, the ACCC and the FIRB all giving it the green light, virtually NO intelligent debate has been held at all.

Now we have yourself, concerned that her husband and a few hundred others may lose their jobs (for the short term before picking up another somewhere else) putting your short term, personal, financial greed before the long term welfare of this nation and its future generations. You are entitled to your opinion but I'm not convinced that it is an intelligent one, as you say.

As for having an alternative plan, you apparently haven't read the numerous posts above that have suggested a number of alternatives, the best of all being that the federal government purchase low priced shares in Oz Minerals, Rio, Fortescue and perhaps a few other 'sure bets' on behalf of the nation's Future Fund.

It won't be long before the markets turn and it's back to business as usual, then the FF will have gained a very nice portfolio to finance the projects it desperately needs to build, your hubbie's job will be secure (that's the main thing, right?) and our nation's sovereign resource assets will have been protected from foreign ownership.

And when you're old and can't work anymore, the Future Fund will have enough in reserve to be able to pay you an old age pension.

Unfortunately Pauline, it's the short sighted, narcistic mentality of people like yourself that continue to allow this country to be run into the ground.

Don't get me wrong, nobody WANTS to see your hubbie or any hard working Australian lose their jobs but in the BIG PICTURE it is insignificant. If he's a hard working man, he'll find another job easily. There is always another job in Australia if you WANT to work.

So, you'd go through some short term discomfort while you're hubbie finds a new job. Is it more important to you to avoid that short term discomfort than to secure the long term sovereignty of this country and it's future generations' common wealth? Is that what you are really saying?

How would you feel about this country being controlled by the Chinese, working for an absolute pittance (average Chinese peasant income is $400 a YEAR) and serving a totalitarian state? Happy to do that, are you Pauline? Well, I'm not.

So before you tell us all that we don't understand the implications of the situation, perhaps pay us the respect of reading the numerous opinions and possible solutions that have been posted here before you arrived and maybe you'll realise that this issue is NOT JUST ABOUT YOU.
# Chris Charles
Friday, March 27, 2009 2:27 PM
Some of you may have been noting with interest and wondering about the government's soon to be introduced internet filtering scheme.

I for one have a major problem with paedophiles and other sick stuff that is on the net but you generally only end up on those sort of sites these days if you have sought them out in the first place. It is therefore, the job of the Federal Police (AFP) to investigate and charge the relatively small percentage of people that pose a threat to society through their internet participation habits and by all means, shut those sites down.

It is not the job of the government to nominate which sites we can and can't go to of our own free will.

This internet filtering (censorship) only further points to the strong influence that China now has over our government.

As far as I know, the only other country to have introduced such a system is the People's Republic of China. Why are we following in their footsteps?

Could it be because China has insisted on it so that when it sends its boats full of workers to our shores, they won't see anything on the net beyond what they would normally have seen at home?

I don't know if you think this is far fetched or not. Perhaps it is. I only know that internet filtering was not something that this government won a mandate to proceed with at the last election and I'm buggered if I can understand why it is so important to them now with all the other important and urgent issues they currently are facing.

I really think China is pulling the strings on this one.

BTW, you may have heard that the government's ACMA website was hacked last night and the following message was posted on it:

"This site contains information about the boards that have the right to CONTROL YOUR FREEDOMZ. The Classification Board has the right to not just classify content (the name is an ELABORATE TRICK), but also the right to DECIDE WHAT IS AND ISNT APPROPRIATE and BAN CONTENT FROM THE PUBLIC. We are part of an ELABORATE DECEPTION from CHINA to CONTROL AND SHEEPIFY the NATION, to PROTECT THE CHILDREN. All opposers must HATE CHILDREN, and therefore must be KILLED WITH A LARGE MELONS during the PROSECUTION PARTIES IN SEPTEMBER. Come join our ALIEN SPACE PARTY."

They can't even manage the security of their OWN websites and yet feel they have the right to set up censorship blacklists that effect businesses and our democratic liberties. Businesses will be fined up to $2,000 if they have links to blacklisted sites. This is scandalous!

Get your house in order first, Steven Conroy. Any small Chinese gifts to declare, Minister?
# Chris Charles
Friday, March 27, 2009 2:34 PM
An scary article from the Sydney Morning Herald on the internet censorship problem and the leaked list of sites:

Shortened link: http://snipurl.com/enda6

Here's an excerpt from the article that concerned me:

Colin Jacobs, spokesman for the online users' lobby group Electronic Frontiers Australia, said, "There is even a harmless tour operator on there, but there is no mechanism for a site operator to know they got on or request to be removed. The prospect of mandatory nation-wide filtering of this secret list is pretty concerning from a democratic point of view."
# Chris Charles
Friday, March 27, 2009 2:42 PM
Even David Koch raised the issue this morning on 'Sunrise' as to whether the government is getting too close to China.

For him to say something about it, it must be fairly evident to anyone observing that has half a brain that our ties to China have become much stronger and their influence much greater since ALP came to power only a year ago.

Pity he didn't say more and dig deeper.

it would be great if Koch would pursue the Rio / Oz Minerals / Fortescue sales and bring all of this to the attention of his audience.

If 'Sunrise' and 'Today' just dropped one celebrity gossip segment each morning to spend some time on these issues vital to Australia, it would be a great service in educating the general population about what is really going on.
# Chris Charles
Friday, March 27, 2009 2:56 PM
ACMA fines for web owners linking to blacklisted sites could run to $11,000 a day...

Article from The Age: http://snipurl.com/enes8

This is crazy, isn't it?

Does anyone have a spare copy of 'Mandarin For Dummies', I think I'm gunna need it soon!

(Willing to pay for it in Australian dollars or Yuen.)
# Richard Murray
Friday, March 27, 2009 5:30 PM
Evidence mounts that Barnaby's concerns are beyond being very well justified. Make no mistake, any Political Party that disagrees with Barnaby's view on this extremely critical matter, will be crushed at the next election. It has >10 times the power of "Work Choices". Labor - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED !

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25250870-601,00.html

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601080&sid=apwkm5Kcg25w&refer=asia
# Chris Charles
Friday, March 27, 2009 7:31 PM
To Richard Murray: Thanks Richard for those two articles. Most illuminating. Good to hear they are feeling the public's disapproval on these sales.

Just be aware that with people like Kevin Rudd, "what the one hand giveth, the other taketh away". Watch for a later back door manoeuvre if these deals don't go through the first time.

Richard, I really hope you're right, and that by the election, it won't all be too little, too late.

Keep posting the good information.
# Pauline
Friday, March 27, 2009 10:47 PM
Hello Chris Charles and fellow readers

I have replied to your comments the ** is the start of your comments and i have relpied with ^^.
Firstly i do Not appreciate the tone of your responses
Its not a matter of my husband being alright, as he does work hard
As in my response i was talking about the general mining situation
nothing related to the where my husband is employed which i gave an insight. So you have incorrectly assumed where he works.....

In regards to your comments :
**So as long as your hubbie is all right in the short term, that's the main thing, is it?
^^No its not based on him its about those people whom work there and there families

**Are you that completely self-centred?
^^NO and i am not that type of person

**You claim there's a "lack of intelligent debate" on the topic. I'd agree. Between Rudd, Swan, the federal Opposition, the ACCC and the FIRB all giving it the green light, virtually NO intelligent debate has been held at all.
Thats right which makes it harder for those you voice there thoughts, as there are been no real debate at all.
^^Thanks for the support

**Now we have yourself, concerned that her husband and a few hundred others may lose their jobs (for the short term before picking up another somewhere else) putting your short term, personal, financial greed before the long term welfare of this nation and its future generations.
^^ No greed has not been an issue and i am not personalising my comments about me it was about those families in those companies having no where to go,as we have friends who are finding it hard to get work with no trade background and no real support.

**Your are entitled to your opinion but I'm not convinced that it is an intelligent one, as you say.
^^Thats your opinion Chris and i respect that and i would only hope you would respect mine. I really think its not worth slagging back and forth about this and making it so personal which i was not. I am only concerned as due to the unemployment rates and the issue of more people across the industry being laid off, its only going to cause a burden on our current systems (centrelink and etc)

**As for having an alternative plan, you apparently haven't read the numerous posts above that have suggested a number of alternatives, the best of all being that the federal government purchase low priced shares in Oz Minerals, Rio, Fortescue and perhaps a few other 'sure bets' on behalf of the nation's Future Fund.
^^ Thats a great idea when i read this; only if this was to happen as i am sure the families from these companies would greatly appreciate this.
It hard to see families move and leave what supports they have and to see them move to other areas of australia, not chasing the big bucks because thats not all true.


**It won't be long before the markets turn and it's back to business as usual, then the FF will have gained a very nice portfolio to finance the projects it desperately needs to build, your hubbie's job will be secure (that's the main thing, right?) and our nation's sovereign resource assets will have been protected from foreign ownership.
^^ Chris in relation to your last comment - remembering its not about my family (hubbie) it is about those families in these situations and i think you have missed that.

**Unfortunately Pauline, it's the short sighted, narcistic mentality of people like yourself that continue to allow this country to be run into the ground.
^^ Chris I believe this comment is not correct as you dont know me and making judgement like this only reflects the type of person you are which you have judged me being....
^^I am sorry you feel that way about my input to this discussion as you have pointed out everyone to their opinion and we should at least respect that without using abusive name calling.

**Don't get me wrong, nobody WANTS to see your hubbie or any hard working Australian lose their jobs but in the BIG PICTURE it is insignificant. If he's a hard working man, he'll find another job easily. There is always another job in Australia if you WANT to work.
^^I really think this has gone to far to keep referring to my family, my comments where to look at what those families and workers would go through, the extra burden to the current australian climate...if the deal was not aloud..
^^I see from your frustation on people not agreeing with you; its been easy to pick on a persons family . my reason to announce that i was a wife/person of a miner was to show support to those people in that situation. Not for your personal gain to attack me personally..

***So, you'd go through some short term discomfort while you're hubbie finds a new job. Is it more important to you to avoid that short term discomfort than to secure the long term sovereignty of this country and it's future generations' common wealth? Is that what you are really saying? ^^what i am saying and not refering to my family if you mind; is that i am not self centred and i happy to have a short term discomfort if it means long term sovereignty. WHO WOULD NOT DO THAT FOR THEIR COUNTRY AND THE NEXT GENERATION.....

***How would you feel about this country being controlled by the Chinese, working for an absolute pittance (average Chinese peasant income is $400 a YEAR) and serving a totalitarian state? Happy to do that, are you Pauline? Well, I'm not.
^^Since you asked for my opinion Chris NO I would not be happy but in saying that i did say that "if the people from oz minerals do it right they would put in place the requirements that would suit the workers and the families.....Lets give them some credit.. like i said before what about the other countries that have brought our mines and etc they did it right and kept the wages and etc good for all"
And i went on to say "we all knew the mining sector boom was not a long term situation but I can tell you we never thought it would drop this bad...
SO Chris i dont know how you thought this was about me.....
I also said that "The lack of intelligent debate on this issue is just stupid", yes there is concerns about what will this do to our country; I have stated that i have concerns about what this will do....

**So before you tell us all that we don't understand the implications of the situation, perhaps pay us the respect of reading the numerous opinions and possible solutions that have been posted here before you arrived and maybe you'll realise that this issue is NOT JUST ABOUT YOU.
^^Chris i really think my comments hit a spark with you.. I am fully aware Its not about me; my reference has been based upon those families and what has not been debated correctly.
On a final note, Thanks Chris for your comments - however i hope my reply sends a clearer understanding.. ITS NOT ABOUT ME..... OR HUBBIE ......
Thanks.
# Sydney Lawrence
Saturday, March 28, 2009 7:06 AM
The hold on the sale of Oz Minerals is a tricky face saving political decision by the Treasurer. He obviously sees the political danger because of the hostile public feeling as excellently demonstrated by this Barnaby Site.

Keep the pressure up Barnaby and Australians.
# Chris Charles
Saturday, March 28, 2009 9:11 AM
Pauline,
Your initial post was very pro the sale of Oz Minerals and you posted it on a forum intended for people to voice their dissapproval of the Rio sale in particular but essentially all of these sales to the Communist Chinese Government.

Did you really expect a soft landing?

Again, in this instance, while I personally feel sympathy for your hubbie, his work mates and their families as they face the loss of their jobs, you've all had it good for some considerable time and should have been able to put a healthy nest egg aside for the rainy days based on the very good money miners earn. After all, that's why you go and work in the mining industry in the first place, isn't it? The big bucks?

I'm sorry it may temporarily interrupt your lives but this fight is not about that. It's not about the short term. It's about securing our resources for the VERY LONG TERM.

So Pauline, I can sympathise with the families involved but I hope you can realise that the sacrifice they may need to make could be something vital to the long term security of this country.

It won't take long for them to find other jobs, ...IF... it comes to that. I live in WA and their are mining projects going ahead right now, looking for workers everyday. It's not the end of the world.

Sorry if I was a bit personal but your original post did hit a nerve as it sounded very self centred. Especially your comments "...it's all GO GO GO from me, Minister" implying the Oz Minerals sale should go ahead really annoyed me.

Again, this is a forum for people to express their DISSATISFACTION with the government's lack of resistance and lack of alternative solutions to the Chinese buy out that is going on. If you came here expecting a supportive hearing, you probably came to the wrong place.

Good luck to you and your hubbie in the future. I hope it all works out OK.
# Chris Charles
Saturday, March 28, 2009 11:21 AM
Hi Sydney,
I agree with you completely and warn every Australian that we should all watch very closely for a future back door move to sneak something through in the middle of the night.

They did it with the stimulus package, they've done it before with parliamentary pensions and I'm sure they'll try it again here, when they think no one is watching.
Saturday, March 28, 2009 1:22 PM
Well done, Barnaby! Australia needs you, mate! Keep on fightiing the good fight. I ask all those who have contributed to this blog to spread the word as widely as they can about the ONLINE PETITION, too. It is high time the average Aussie had more say in what is happening to this country.
PM RUDD feels that dealing with the Chinese is "a great opportunity, even though they have done some bad things" (a comment he made to a TV reporter during an interview last week in the USA - and which had the interviewer looking at him as if he was an unsophisticated moron!): But commonsense would say that a culture that has had more than 5,000 bloody and brutal years "to get it right" - and still can't - probably never will.
My final comment arises from a short interview I watched on NEWSHOUR this week. Our Foreign Affairs Minister was interviewed during his recent trip to Sichuan Province and the west of China. He concluded by saying that he intended to mount a campaign to encourage Australian businesses to invest in the Western regions of China. If the Foreign Affairs Minister had done more research, he would have found out that Bejing ran a massive campaign in Hong Kong to entice local Hong Kong businesses to invest in that very same region, some years ago. Suffice to say that there were virtually no takers!
Why does this labour government feel that it is fine to sacrifice Australian businesses (and natural resources) to the cause of ruthlessly corrupt communist China?
# Garry
Saturday, March 28, 2009 2:15 PM
Hello Pauline, you may take it as a given that most people support your right to defend your husbands job. After all, a day’s work for a days pay is an honourable stance that few should argue with. The problem as I see it, is that many jobs in Australia’s mining sector have been created for the sake of political convenience

Indeed, job creation has forever been a basic argument politicians fall back on.

That is, do anything, sign anything, so long as it creates jobs. Consequently, in the mining industry we end up with temporal occupations geared to life-of-the-resource projects, which in most cases are shortened to their minima because of an ongoing quest for maximum extraction rates. Foreign owners and all – ever looking to maximise shareholder profits.

Whilst this may be Ok for project owners, and for a time, the Australian citizens who dig the ground for them, but it is not too good for a long term sustainable future, country wise. After all a good part of this discussion concerns the present generation leaving some sort of legacy for the next. It’s simply not good enough to say that kids being born today will have to fend for themselves, and we owe them nothing by way of conserving our god given assets.

Assets by the way - which have taken nature hundreds of millions of years to create.

We are led to believe our mineral resources are endless, and that we can extract a given deposit to total depletion, then simply find another – Or so the mantra goes.

This is the crux of the issue, and in the view of a growing number of Australians, a time has come for serious discussion about its viability. In truth, a long held mentality of the magic pudding days is coming to an end, and the trigger for this particular discussion happens to be the outlandish level of foreign ownership or control of or resources. Say, 80% of our mineral resources

The sad reality is, the RIO/Chinalco trigger merely concerns two foreign entities dividing up Australia for their own benefit – A trifling matter, really.

And as for the jobs they might create, or the ones we might lose if it doesn’t work. Well they are a side show by comparison to the main event. The main event being - The long term sustainability of Australia Incorporated. Our country.

Just as some corporations have crummy managers, ala, Rio Tinto - countries also have them. In our case we have had far too many generations of country managers who have perpetuated mere job creation as a sustainable form of empire building.

A fiction at best, it is simply not sustainable for the long term benefit of Australia, especially in today’s climate where the developing world wants our assets at the rate they demand

When one takes a look at resource poor countries, which by necessity have to be focussed on using their brains to prosper, for example, Switzerland, a country without a mining sector, so they come here to do their business. Indeed, to them, we Australians are a pushover, we will do anything to get hold of some foreign capital and the job opportunities that come with it. We Australians don’t seek our own industries, all we want is jobs.

For instance, the Ernest Henry operation, a former MIM mine near Mt Isa that is now controlled by Xstrata which produces about 170,000 ounces of gold and 130,000 tonnes of copper concentrate a year. Profits exceed $100 million on annual revenue of more than $300 million - and Australian ownership is zero.

Rather, we are drip fed via a royalty and jobs stream from operations such as this. Do take a look at the profit/revenue ratio - where profits are repatriated back to head office in Switzerland.

These stories are endless, and one could easily come up with a thousand like cases in the mining game where we have been reduced to the status of mere workers. Such is the nature of our participation in the mining boom.

On these temporal implications I’ve been referring to. A good example might be found in Bass Strait oil.

About forty years ago we started to dig the resource from the ground, and to this end we invited in what today is the worlds largest oil company. They and BHP, their partner, sold it off for, say, an average of $15 a barrel or less, to the global market. At the time we were 80% self sufficient in oil and regarded it as a mere commodity, optimistically taking the view, we will find more. Much as we do will all of our resources.

Well a mere half a generation on - given that a lifetime is eighty years, we can now see total depletion of this asset staring us in the face. Also we have had a glimpse at sky high oil prices which make our average price for Bass Strait oil look like a Sunday market sell out. However, the big sin we and future generations now face, is that Australia is quickly heading for 20% self sufficiency with oil, and in the near future will have to buy in 80% of our needs. A reversal of fortunes, which translates to a huge amount of hard cash leaving our shores in order to maintain our way of life.

Hindsight is a wonderful vision, it clearly suggests we should have taken our time to drain Bass Strait of its oil. Though, see what I mean about the legacies we pass onto the next generation.

Time is overdue to address the simple arithmetic of our own needs – first and foremost.

Meanwhile China is hoarding its own mineral resources, and insists it wants to buy ours.

For instance, data reveals total Australian reserves of natural gas to be 4 trillion cubic metres - and China has reserves of 38 trillion cubic metres. Yet we have completed a deal with them to supply millions of tonnes of North West Shelf gas for a period of twenty five years – at a fixed price. A scandal of the first order when one considers the price of gas will soon go the same way as oil.

Also, Australia is selling coal as if there were no tomorrow…we, by far are the worlds largest exporter, where less than one quarter of our extractive efforts are used at home, and the other three quarters exported. Indeed, it seems 40% of the globe’s coal exports are coming from here. Australia ranks about fifth in coal deposits, yet somehow we are led to believe we are a super giant. China, with vastly larger coal reserves than Australia, buys our coal, because during the early stages of industrialisation a political decision was made to leave theirs in the ground.

*************

Pauline - Candidly I would like to see PM Rudd get us into a position where he could offer you a re-training course in the brand new industries of our very own Silicon Valley where we go to bat with Microsoft. You know, places where they develop a high value add product the world wants, then put it on a 20 cent CD and brightened up with $1.50 worth of packaging, then finally strike a retail price of, say, $200.

That is, aim for creating a significant depth of 21st century industries in Australia, and the jobs that follow them.

Why, even PM Rudd is on record saying, “I don’t want to live in a country that doesn’t make things anymore”

Sound bytes really, given that we are going backwards with these abilities

The problem is, it won’t happen because our country managers have small thinking muscles. It is their firm resolve that we should live up to the name – “Digger”
# Garry
Saturday, March 28, 2009 2:25 PM
I’m not one for conspiracy theories, but it doesn’t look good for Joel Fitzgibbon. He may not be an intel gathering sleeper for the commies, as some would say, via this sixteen year relationship with Helen Liu, but it does rather look as if he may have been groomed for a task

Here’s a few snippets from the Melbourne Age .....

As part of their investigation, officials from Defence's security and intelligence areas discovered Mr Fitzgibbon stays in a Canberra residence sublet from Ms Liu and her family. The minister's office confirmed this arrangement yesterday.

Australian Securities and Investment Commission documents show several of her deregistered Australian companies had Chinese Government-owned enterprises as shareholders.

The Chinese state-owned enterprises that held shares in some of Ms Liu's former companies include the Shandong Group Fisheries Corporation, the Industrial & Commercial Bank of China and the Jinang Steel and Iron Works.
The Shandong fishing enterprise and the Jinang steelworks are run by senior Communist Party officials.

Federal Court records show that in the 1990s Ms Liu's companies bought properties around Sydney worth tens of millions of dollars, including shopping plazas in Dee Why and Blacktown, through her companies Diamond Hill International Pty Ltd, Wincopy Pty Ltd and the British Virgin Islands-incorporated Vision Wise Holdings.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/defence-spies-on-its-minister-20090325-9aij.html?page=1


**************

Obviously the focus of attention is on Fitzgibbon, but it needs to be turned to Ms Lui, and whether years ago she was funded to go on a mission to Australia – ie: via, Chinese Government-owned enterprises as shareholders, and Senior Communist Party officials being part owners of her Sydney operations, etc.
# Chris Charles
Saturday, March 28, 2009 9:19 PM
Garry, once again I have to agree with you about Ms Liu. There ought to be an investigation into her and her Chinese Connections' activities within Australia.

It certainly raises the question, that with so many Federal members from both sides having received free travel and gifts from these 'operatives' with Communist government connections, how many more of them are there?

Yes, it certainly appears that Fitzgibbon has been taken advantage of. Your term, 'groomed' is probably very accurate.

Soon though, you won't be able to research that sort of data from the internet, the Rudd government will have blacklisted any sources contrary to it's own propaganda machine. Just wait.
# Chris Charles
Sunday, March 29, 2009 12:01 AM

More emerging information on the Chinese buy out...

http://business.smh.com.au/business/chinalco-secures-rio-stake-loans-hopes-for-firb-nod-20090328-9ej1.html

http://business.smh.com.au/business/china-ban-pushes-oz-to-the-brink-20090327-9e4t.html

As another post intelligently pointed out, with all of these Chinese banks involved and two Chinese government officials sitting on the board of Rio, how will it be possible to privately discuss any deals to be done with China with these people present in the boardroom?

Again, when Chinese interests gain enough control, we won't be dictating prices to them anymore, they;ll be telling us how little they feel like paying.

If this wasn't so incredibly tragic, it would be a scene worthy of Monty Python at their best.
# Jim Dannock
Sunday, March 29, 2009 12:15 AM
I hope the Prime Minister has noted the latest Chinese lies being told to their own populace about their occupation of Tibet. Hopefully he will also recognise that there is a fair chance the Chinese may also be lying about their objectives with their intentioned investment in Australia resources. Living in the northern region of East Asia I know full well that lies are just part of life.
# Sydney Lawrence
Sunday, March 29, 2009 7:19 AM
Senator Joyce, is Mr Rudd still Prime Minister of Australia or has he taken a side job as a promoter of China. His continual harping that China should be given a more prominent role in the world is getting boring ( unless you happen to be Chinese).

I know Mr Rudd likes to stride the world stage like some modern Colossus of Rhodes dispensing advice to all, but surely China is big enough to speak for itself. Then again there may be more than meets the eye to Mr Rudds recent secret meetings in Canberra with high ranking Chinese communist officials.
# Chris Charles
Sunday, March 29, 2009 10:36 AM
Hi Sydney,
I agree entirely with you. I watched 'Insiders' this morning with amazement as Barry Cassidy pointed out that it was not until AFTER the "meeting of the minds" that President Obama said to the press that he and Comrade Rudd would be discussing future troop levels in Afghanistan.

What the hell else did Kevin have to talk to him about then while he was there if it wasn't that?!?

We did not elect him to do the bidding of the Chinese government. As Andrew Bolt suggested, we don't need him to be some sort of Manchurian Candidate or as Barry Cassidy sniped, "the Chinese Foreign Minister", we need him to captain the good ship that is Australia. Nothing else.

I know it may put but a small dent in his not-too-delicate sense of importance to be told this but, he's not doing such a good a job at home at the moment that he can spare time to do the bidding of Asian Superpowers and advise the Leader of the Free World on macro economics. We need him on deck, at the helm steering Australia through the choppy seas ahead.

That is the job he applied for and was given.

Or is it really Julia that we elected after all?
# Sydney Lawrence
Sunday, March 29, 2009 2:49 PM
Hi Chris, good call. The strong rumor that Mr. Rudd is making every post a winner and seizing every opportunity to advance himself on the world scene so as to position himself for the plum job Secretary General of the United Nations may be correct. If and when he does secure that job we won't see him for dust.
# William Joiner
Sunday, March 29, 2009 5:16 PM
Maybe I'm not understanding the big picture. Why don't we use our own natural gas here in Australia to power hundreds of new small power plants, which would supply many more jobs to Australians than the aging coal fired power plants do? Selling this almost clean source of energy for a pittance to overseas countries just does not make sense. It should be used to supply cheap electricity and compressed gas for cars to lower the cost of living in Australia and get us out from under the thumb of OPEC, who would, at the present time, be planning some major petrol price increases to make up for lost revenue.
# Leon Voesenek
Sunday, March 29, 2009 6:21 PM
It seems that politicians think that they own Australia. This must be stopped.
Too much has been sold by various governments and we must hang on to the liittle we have left. Politicians must be held accountable for selling that which is owned by the people of Australia. Selling goods which you do not own is an offence.
# Garry
Sunday, March 29, 2009 7:28 PM
Central to this conversation, is we should never lose sight of the plain fact that a nation state(China) wants to buy part of Australia and reserve it for its exclusive use. Or at least act in a manner as if it were.

The names of the various entities China would use to achieve this end are nothing more than a play on semantics, where it will be quickly found these entities are not free enterprise corporations as we know them, they are arms of the Peoples Republic of China, the government, and no amount of whitewashing with corporate sounding names will change their status.

So in principal, allowing the PRC to buy control of Australian mineral assets is no different than allowing them to buy large chunks of real estate in QLD or NSW, in order to grow food crops for the exclusive use of China. Naturally, with extensive water rights to go with those properties.

Now, how would people feel about that.

If the Rudd govt even try to sidestep this core issue by crafting their own semantics to effect the numerous mining deals they now have in front of them, I’m of the view the rage among the populace will usher them out of government.

It may not have dawned on them - but theirs is a precarious position
# Chris Charles
Sunday, March 29, 2009 9:40 PM
The Governor General did it before to one other big headed Labor PM, I'm sure you'll all remember.

And similar circumstances prevailed then. Gough was trying to do a dodgy deal to borrow funds to prop up Labor's expensive welfare plans back then.

Kevin is borrowing $50,000,000 ($50m!!!) a WEEK to prop up his fruitless stimulus packages now.

Not much difference in my books.

Borrowing money to get out of debt just is dumb, dumb, dumb. Even a fifth grader could work that out. Borrowing from Peter to pay Paul. It never works out.

The only genuine way out of debt is sales. Not sales of sovereign resources deposits and important infrastructure but rather the sale of HQ manufactured goods and specialised services.

I don't mean go and compete with China and India either but build a better mouse trap. People round the world are sick of cheap Chinese goods that don't last. Build something better.

At least, value add to the raw materials we ship overseas without a second thought only to buy them back as secondary and tertiary goods.

I have a feeling it won't be long before the groundswell of support for Kevin wanes and there is a huge shift in popularity when people start to realise what he has done and what his real agenda is.

I'd love to be an ASIO / DSD agent listening in when (Her) Madge and Quentin get on the phone next! Two smart old birds figuring out what to do with this bureaucratic little upstart from Jo's country. That would be good!
# Garry
Monday, March 30, 2009 7:11 PM
Since the Fitzgibbon conversation has been warming up lately, maybe a few more thoughts are in order

If Fitzgibbon has been groomed, then the process will have started years ago, and undoubtedly there will others. By this, I mean more Mr, or Ms Liu’s scattered across the landscape, and even more Fitzgibbon’s who have woven relationships with them over lengthy periods of time.

I’m not much for conspiracy theories, however, first hand observations count heavily, and having seen some of the things going on with Chinese owned businesses these days, nothing would surprise me. In truth I think we have probably been the object of state sponsored colonisation for some time, whereby there’s a process happening by degrees. Found in examples of supposed small business owners who regularly go missing for months at a time, when it’s later discovered they were back in the motherland for a bout of educational training – That sort of thing. Indeed, there’s plenty of other examples dovetailing with the above. Financing in particular, especially when it comes to business expansion.

Ala, Ms Liu where Australian Securities and Investment Corporation documents show Ms Liu's Australian company, Australia China Investments, is half-owned by Industrial and Commercial Bank of China, one of the four major financial arms of the Chinese Government. I for one, am not amused by this sort of nexus because nation states take up financial partnerships for programs and agendas - Not with people and their personal agendas. So what is behind this money trail

Correct me if I’m wrong - but the above logic should be apparent.

Naturally political incumbents are not too interested in this sort of activity, save for security issues

Begging another question, since Ms Liu has been here for many years, is she an Australian citizen, or still carrying a PRC passport

In the best spy traditions, sleepers are like seeds, they can take many years of cultivating to bear fruit, and even then the carers may only get to sample small parts of the crop. However the cost of nurturing leaves a paper trail, and this is the problem Fitzgibbon faces. Also his apparent forgetfulness about several important matters tends to implicate him further. - Not unlike Justice Einfeld, who until recently had impeccable credentials. Now of course, people look upon him as a smart/fool, who was good at his chosen trade, but acted as if he was beyond scrutiny. It’s sad, but now he’s regraded as nothing more than a village idiot.

So it can be with Joel Fitzgibbon, and the politicos who blindly support him.

The problem is, by its very nature the Defence Dept has long term remits beyond the political arena, whereas govt ministers come and go every few years, and by political windfall alone inherit their position as titular heads. Ergo, they may or may not be all that competent. Therefore it is not unreasonable for a permanent govt department to want to know something of the temporary boss’s background.

At the moment I think our political incumbents will be focussed on smoke shovelling and finding a whistle blower to kill the media story. In otherwords, make the whistle blower into a bigger story. However it might turn out to be a bad news strategy for them. Perhaps not a Watergate - nevertheless damaging, because it is pretty evident the public now see PM Rudd and company as willing bedfellows to the Beijing set.

The point is, an inside story of relevance was somehow leaked to the Fairfax media, and particularly not the Murdoch media, where its head is commercially beholden to the Chinese Government, and therefore, would not dare be controversial with them.

In this sort of media climate, where intense competition gets played out on a daily basis, we do have a better chance of getting at the truth.

No doubt the Fitzgibbon/Liu story may just be a case of smoke without fire.

However, I wouldn’t bet on it.


http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/national/national/general/how-defence-officials-spied-on-fitzgibbon/1470418.aspx?storypage=1
# William Joiner
Monday, March 30, 2009 7:46 PM
Just heard on the 7.30 report, Australia is going into debt to China at the rate of $500 million per month. I hope Rudd is keeping enough for the soup lines.
# Chris Charles
Monday, March 30, 2009 10:05 PM
But how can we stop him? How can we register our objection to this obviously flawed policy? What do you all think we can do?

If we stand around and do nothing, it will only be our own faults when we're mowing the lawns of our Chinese masters in years to come.

Any sensible suggestions? Media? Citizens referendum? Legal class action?
# Chris Charles
Tuesday, March 31, 2009 3:24 AM
And there goes Fortescue....

Link: http://business.smh.com.au/business/no-objections-to-chinese-lifting-stake-in-miner-20090331-9h6x.html

So Twiggy pockets another $645,000,000 and we (the country) end up with what?

Good onya Wayne! That's a great service you're doing for your country mate!
# Chris Charles
Tuesday, March 31, 2009 3:30 AM
And now Kevin is feeling the heat...

Old Kevvie asks to not be seated next to the Chinese Ambassador but his request is refused by BBC programme.

Link: http://www.smh.com.au/national/oh-those-generals-ministers-rendezvous-with-top-brass-20090330-9h2n.html

It's too late Kevvie, we already know what you're up to mate! Don't be shy....
# Sydney Lawrence
Tuesday, March 31, 2009 7:31 AM
The bankrupting of Australia has to stop. Sure Mr Rudd can buy votes (as can be seen by his ratings) but there is a limit to the handouts even considering the billions he can obtain from his friends in China who, when they are ready will spring the trap shut.

With the surplus gone and Australia trillions in debt the Australian people will realize what they have lost. Kevin Rudd and Barack Obama are rank amateurs who, like the Pied Piper are leading us all down the road to ruin.
# William Joiner
Tuesday, March 31, 2009 12:04 PM
I think we need Barnaby to fight to get legislation through which will guarantee Australian sovereign assets stay in Australian hands. He would be much more able to reverse things if he became PM and I think the Australian people maybe looking for a new direction by the next election. Barnaby showed his integrity and cross the floor even though he is supposed to vote with the LIbs. He proved this when he voted to maintain the Telstra fund for the bush. And he is proving it again now!

On a scale of 10, I would vote Barnaby as an 8/10, he lost 2 points because he believes coal is the answer to our future jobs and our export profits. We need to responsibily move away from coal altogether.

Rudd and Turnbull I think are equal fatcats at about 3/10, Rudd quoted 25% carbon reduction by 2025 and now supports 5%. Turnbull did not know the difference between solar and solar/thermal energy on the ABC Q&A.

Costello I would give mabe a 1/10, no guts
# Richard Murray
Tuesday, March 31, 2009 6:05 PM
It should be remembered in our National history, that on this day, Captain Swan happily smashed the champagne bottle over the bow of "SS Beginning Of The End".


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/03/31/2531401.htm
# Chris Charles
Tuesday, March 31, 2009 6:53 PM
Good onya Swannie! Top job, mate! Sell off all that dusty, old iron ore stuff. We'll never need it!

You have to be 'making stuff' to need 'raw materials' and we don't 'make stuff', right? Sell it and we can spend the cash down the pub or the TAB.

Beauty Wayne! You're a bloody genius, mate!

And if we ever do start to 'make stuff' again one day, we can just ask the Chinese how much they want for it, right?

I'm sure they'll remember us and give us an extra good deal like the one we're giving them now, right Wayne?

Love your work, Waaaaaayynne... always thinking.
# Garry
Tuesday, March 31, 2009 7:47 PM

The good news is Ms Liu claims to be an Australian citizen, or so she said today from her home in Shandong, China. Also quite a bit of support has been forthcoming from ex NSW premier, Bob Carr. He saying, she only had "modest" investments in Australia. Which is rather at odds with the truth.

***********

“” Federal Court records show that in the 1990s Ms Liu's companies bought properties around Sydney worth tens of millions of dollars, including shopping plazas in Dee Why and Blacktown, through her companies Diamond Hill International Pty Ltd, Wincopy Pty Ltd and the British Virgin Islands-incorporated Vision Wise Holdings.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/defence-spies-on-its-minister-20090325-9aij.html?page=2

The Chinese state-owned enterprises that held shares in some of Ms Liu's former companies include the Shandong Group Fisheries Corporation, the Industrial & Commercial Bank of China and the Jinang Steel and Iron Works.
The Shandong fishing enterprise and the Jinang steelworks are run by senior Communist Party officials. “”

***************

The difficulty as I see it, is Ms liu claims first and foremost to be a businesswoman, yet over a lengthy period of time has obviously cultivated a wide range of political connections, including the somewhat naïve Mr Carr.

Now where is the nexus, and why do political connections matter, as they obviously have.

I for one, don’t buy these smoke shoveling replies to the media !

Now back to Fitzgibbon and his Canberra apartment – Is he the only one in Australian political circles with a Ms Liu apartment. Does she have more scattered across the country, and if so, have they ever been swept for bugs, given Fitzgibbons role in Australia’s military decision making, etc.

Questions – None of which should be treated lightly

********

I once read - the Americans regarded Australia as the soft underbelly of western intelligence, and thus, were reluctant to share much detail with us


# Chris Charles
Wednesday, April 01, 2009 5:57 AM

Gerard Henderson's article in today's SMH raises more interesting issues about both sides of parliament and their relationships with China.

Sounds like Kevin isn't the only one keeping secrets about meetings with the Chinese Propaganda Minister. What's going on, Malcolm?

And I didn't know China's security and intelligence chief Zhou Yongkang had also made a secret visit to Australia last November and had conducted talks with the Foreign Minister, Stephen Smith, did anyone else know this?

Why all the secrets? Don't we have a right to know? What about transparency in government? What happened to that?

There simply mustn't be a chapter covering it in Mao's 'Little Red Book' or surely Kev would have insisted on it.

Link to Gerard Henderson's very interesting article: http://snipurl.com/ey8r5

There is a lot more going on in this country and its relationship with China than we are being told about. Wouldn't it be nice if our government that is meant to represent us actually told us what it is doing? Even consulted with us on what we would like them to do in this important area?

Am I the only one getting the feeling that we are being sold out?

Things seem to be being negotiated that are not really to our benefit, or why else would the government not be disclosing its intentions?

The whole thing stinks worse than a Beijing SULO bin on a hot day ...before the Olympics.
# Sydney Lawrence
Wednesday, April 01, 2009 6:24 AM
Senator Barnaby, reported from London yesterday that Mr Rudd said "the more businesses we sell to China to more jobs Australians will have". Did he say this, can this be right and if so how charming for Australia. Give up ownership of our heritage for a few slave jobs in mines owned by foreigners.
Go to hell Mr Rudd.
# Chris Charles
Wednesday, April 01, 2009 10:57 AM

He surely has a better understanding of economics than that statement would imply, so to make such a statement, to apply such spin to it is more evidence that there is an agenda in play to which we are not privy.

Garry has said it before, this country's successive governments have sold off resources and industries for years under the guise of job security. This is a misnomer and must be halted abruptly if we stand any chance at all of preserving our current standards of living.

Whitlam, Fraser, Hawke, Keating, Howard / Costello, they've all done it. It's just a hell of a lot easier to sell off assets than to create new ones. Trouble is, when you've sold off all of your assets, what do you do then?

Especially when you're borrowing $500,000,000 a month from the Chinese government as we are presently. What income generators do we have left at our disposal to assist in repaying that enormous debt when it gets called in?

How can it make economic sense to sell off and shut down profit centres (assets and resources) in the name of 'job security' or 'free trade'?

We seem to be the only one playing on a level playing field. Everyone else seems to be on an easy downhill run when they deal with us.

At this rate, what will be left? Future generations, don't bother even thinking about how they'll live. It won't be like we have, that's for certain.
# William Joiner
Wednesday, April 01, 2009 4:57 PM
I remenber the first time I saw Rudd the dud on Coshie's morning show. They were talking about selling the Snowy Mountain Scheme, Coshy ask Rudd what he thought about selling it and he replied "Sounds like a good idea to me"

I hear Fortiscue Metals have been sold to the Chinese, is this right?

China is still after OZ Minerals less Prominent Hill. They never stop.

Australians just don't realise what a bunch of merchants we keep getting for a PM, and very poor merchants at that. If we split all the wealth up among all Australians, what a bunch of rich people we would be. Our countries wealth has been redistributed to our detriment ever since the start of Globalization
# Garry
Wednesday, April 01, 2009 6:56 PM
Yes, had they sold the Snowy Mountain Scheme it probably would have ended up in foreign hands, as a lot of our essential utilities already are. Look around and you will see we are already buying a great deal of our water and electricty from offshore entities. Free trade, they call it.

Opposition to selling the Snowy Scheme was a line in the sand, and at the time, rather at odds with PM Rudd's views. Fortunately he had the common sense to heed the public warning

Let's see what he does with a vastly bigger issue - Our future
# Garry
Wednesday, April 01, 2009 7:11 PM

http://www.theage.com.au/national/coalition-accused-of-race-politics-20090331-9ias.html


Ah, the latest tactic from Simon Crean, who flew directly from Washington to Beijing to meet up with his colleagues who were already there. Crean is now using the China specific, term - “xenophobia” to whip up his own storm in response to the one his own colleagues have created.

Xenophobia – “Having abnormal fear or hatred of the strange or foreign” - is not a good choice of words Mr Crean. Indeed, in the context of this discussion a lot of people find it racist for you to use it.

So far the thrust of this anti China takeover of Australia has dealt with specifics. Largely the legacy PM Rudds crew will leave to future generations of Australians, by virtue of the fact they will not have access to their own natural resources – Their future bank.

Which by the way, a succession of governments have been selling off for decades. And to boot, to anyone, any corporation, who chooses to use Australia as a quarry. This time however, the discussion centres on a nation state, the PRC, buying up Australia, which is not quite the same as an ill run corporation, head officed in London.

Mr Crean also said – “Now at no stage have we been handmaidens to the Chinese."

Waffle, I say, and so do a growing number of Australians, who at the end of the day might just toss you out of office. And to reinforce the point, I for one, voted your party in, having decided Howard’s mob had lost the plot for much the same reasons as you are now.

A local political term in office is only a few years, however great damage can be done in that short time – That’s also one of the issues being discussed.

In the best traditions your team is still selling off Australia, ever committing us to dig up our god given assets with no thought to us ever joining the 21st century, economic activity wise. Early in office, PM Rudd said “I don’t want to live in a country that doesn’t make things anymore” Yet on a daily basis we are moving to a service economy, where stacking supermarket shelves will be a working norm. Yet your primary answers to this are to dig more dirt - and to boot, for foreign entities from all parts of the globe.

I don’t think there’s a person here on Senator Joyce’s web page who has generalised anything about the Chinese people. Rather, slings and arrows have been tossed at their government. Much the same as happens with the US govt the world over, vs, the people of that country. Chinese people are widely accepted as decent hard working individuals who are pretty easy to get along with, unfortunately though, in the PRC led by a rapacious govt, who by their own track record have blood on their hands. Indeed, their policies are not hard to find, yet you the political incumbents,(for the moment) insist we should embrace them in an unquestioning manner, and if we don’t we stand accused of being xenophobic.

Many will look upon this attitude a form of prostitution – ie: almost anything goes, so long as the price is right. Well the news is, we want more from our politicians, we are desperately in need of visionaries who have a plan – none of this political grandstanding anymore - Go out and do some 21st century empire building.

And above all, stop selling our future
# William Joiner
Wednesday, April 01, 2009 8:30 PM
Besides all the regulatory authorities that review all these mining sales, why doesn't the Senate get to review them also?

The sale of these assets effect the prosperity and future of all Australians, so the Senate should have the right to reject them if the are deemed to be not in the interest of the Australian people, who after all represent the country of Australia.
# Chris Charles
Wednesday, April 01, 2009 11:48 PM
Garry,
That Simon Crean, he's good isn't he? And what a stage to launch an attack from!

He's rushed off to China to hold hands with one of his Commie puppeteers over there, probably with a view to smoothing some of their ruffled feathers over the revision to Oz Metals deal and decides to take a cheap, wretched and disgraceful broadside at his own countrymen, you and I, for having an opinion on something that our parents gave their lives to protect, our country.

Does he not consider it an act of gross stupidity to be in another country and criticising your own people back home? How far will this ALP mob go with this? They need a serious kick up the arse for firstly putting the country's security at risk, secondly allowing the selling off of our sovereign resources and infrastructure and now insulting the very people that put them in office, the voting public of Australia, calling them xenophobic and questioning their intelligence for having an opinion contrary to their own. Unbrideled arrogance as I've never seen before from any previous Australian politician.

Not that their opinion is even their very own, mind you. It is the opinion of the Chinese Communist Party that the ALP stoolies are being generously rewarded to promote where ever they go. What a bloody disgrace to this country and its fore fathers they all are. They should seek political asylum in the PRC because after this, I don't think they'll be very welcome back here.

Xenophobic!?!? I have employed and worked along side Asians from a number of lands for many years now. So have many other Australians. I have even had the good fortune to count a few of them as my friends as have many Australians. I am neither xenophobic or racist. I simply object to Australia being asset stripped by ignorant, greedy politicians and business men. What is xenophobic about that?

How dare Simon Crean make such shameful accusations about his fellow country men while on a foreign visit. Has he not a single ounce of decency in his malicious and venomous body? Save it until you get home Simon, you untrustworthy snake. I hope the media have field day with you when you get home and put you out to pasture where you should have been years ago. You are so out of touch and lacking in vision to be in the role you are in.

Let's hope a citizens referendum or the GG sees this (ALP) lot out well before the next election. There's not enough time to wait another 2 years.
# Ming Gong
Thursday, April 02, 2009 9:04 AM
I heard on ABC radio this morning about Senator Joyce's arguments. He said that those Chinese companies are 100% owned by the Chinese government, and our foreigners can’t invest in those companies. This is wrong. Chinese government own the majority but not 100%. Foreign companies are welcome to own minority of those companies. They are traded in the Chinese share market, and some on US and Hong Kong market, such as Chinalco. Many big investment banks in the world manage funds that invest in Chinese state owned companies. If the Senator knows this but choice to ignore, that is fine. It is called dirty politics. If the Senator does not know these factors, that is a worry. It is called stupidity.
# Sydney Lawrence
Thursday, April 02, 2009 10:12 AM
Senator Joyce, what about a call for a protest in Canberra for the Australian people to display their displeasure at the Rudd sell-off of of our childrens heritage and the Australian peoples future.
# Chris Charles
Thursday, April 02, 2009 10:17 AM

Revealed: Fitzgibbon given third China trip by Liu

Link: http://snipurl.com/f1evx

He's got to go now. Not because he accepted these trips but because, when asked to declare them he has lied. He only admitted the first two trips after much pressuring from media and the opposition but must have thought the third trip would slip under the radar because it was back in 1994. He is devious and manipulative. Not characteristics we expect from an Australian Federal Minister.

Big mistake, Joel. you need to resign today. You have no integrity and therefore no right to hold the vital position of Minister of Defence in Australia.

We don't like sneaky liars in public office, Joel. So it needs to be an 'early shower' for you, comrade. Pack your bags. I'm sure Helen Liu will have a nice office for you somewhere down in Chinatown. Or maybe ...not?

Never mind, you'll always be able to write a book about it!
# Chris Charles
Thursday, April 02, 2009 10:20 AM
I support Sydney's suggestion 100%.

Only thing I'd add is that it needs to be co-ordinated to include every capital city in Australia.

People across the country are outraged about what is happening at the moment.
# Chris Charles
Thursday, April 02, 2009 10:38 AM
Ming Gong, I'd like to challenge you to give us a reasonable set (5-10) of examples of LARGE (corporate or government) foreign investment holdings in Chinese State owned companies that are listed on the Chinese stock market and to list the percentage of each share holding.

Also, can you clarify what the upper limit of foreign ownership that is allowed by the Chinese government please? I don't think it's anywhere near 51%, is it?

The only recent example I can recall of a large foreign company wishing to invest was when the Chinese government rejected Coca Cola's application to buy a large share in China's largest fruit drink manufacturer.

I don't dispute that it happens from time to time, but I imagine you will find it difficult to provide such a list.

Not that I am critical of the Chinese decision to reject Coca Cola's bid by the way. In fact, I think it was very appropriate for them to do so. And if our Kevin wants to be so like the Chinese, perhaps he could start by adapting some of their protectionist attitudes towards our local industries.

But that's right, we all live on a level playing ground here in Australia, don't we?

I say, if the Chinese are not going to adapt free trade and continue to maintain a protectionist stance towards outside investment with investment caps and the like, then why should they be given unbridled access to our public companies and sovereign resources and infrastructure?

Yes, that makes some of us look stupid, ...but I'm not sure that it's Senator Joyce.

Over to you, Ming Gong....
# Garry
Thursday, April 02, 2009 8:02 PM
Topical writer Andrew Bolt has recently joined the widening critique on Joel Fitzgibbon.

Among numerous items raised within the link below, - here’s what he said


“” one of the events she had him attend in China showed she was not just some casual friend drawn to Fitzgibbon out of some shared love of Chinese pottery, but was instead an extremely well-connected political schmoozer.

Fitzgibbon found he was an honoured guest at a Chinese military art exhibition attended by more than 60 generals, as well as the commander of China's naval air force. “”


http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25271210-25717,00.html


***********

Forgetfulness of this sort thing in a defence minister shows that he is either slack in accountability to his real boss(who at the moment, we presume has something to do with Canberra & Australia), or all along he had planned to wing it, and never mention his China connections.

In any case, there’s been a long time connection welded to the PRC, and on evidence alone, one that appears to be rather opaque during its formation.

Also, in reading Andrew Bolts editorial it’s quite evident that Ms Liu is far from a businesswoman in isolation. Indeed she appears to be a vital link to the upper echelons of the PRC government, first and foremost - and the fact she has gone to the trouble of forming business links in Australia is incidental. She, having been directly financed by the PRC, and all that - At least according to ASIC records, which suggests her role here might have been of a vicarious nature.

I’m guessing at the moment, but think that if our security watchdogs don’t vigorously apply themselves to this - then the media will.

Naturally if by weight of evidence, circumstantial or not, the media happen to reveal the story ahead of our supposed watchdogs, then public anger will quickly turn to the Canberra set. And rightly so !
# Ming Gong
Thursday, April 02, 2009 10:13 PM
Chris Charles,Valin steel, which recently took 17% Fortescue Metal, is 33% owned by ArcelorMittal. The Chinese government only owns 33% of it. The other shareholders are individuals and fund managers including some international ones. The three largest banks in China, and happens to become the largest in the world thanks to the meltdown of western big banks, are 20% more owned by foreign investors. I bet you don’t know that Warren Buffet made hundreds of millions of US dollars by investing in China’s number one oil company. Last year Wall Street’s banks all lost dearly, but they all made money and still making money in China.

However, I am not here to educate you about international business and finance, nor to defend China’s government. Maybe I dislike the communist party as much as you do, if not more. I came here only to make one point: if Senator Joyce wants to run a campaign then run a sensible one. Don’t tell lies, or even worse, speak out without knowing what he is talking about. To cheat on his followers or stir up uneasy feeling over other nations should be the last thing to do by a politician. That is what Hitler did to the Germany, all in the word of national interests.

I recommend you do some research on Andrew Forrest and Fortescue Metal. By doing business with China, Andrew Forrest became the richest Australian. More importantly Fortescue Metal is building factories, railways and communities in the desert. Thousands of people are employed thanks to the investment from China. Without an open mind as one of Andrew Forrest, that place would be back to a desert with all money wasted. From pure business point of view, I think the Chinese companies are jumping too fast to save the Australian resource companies. Those resource companies in high debt will be cheaper after bankruptcy. In this sense, the Chinese companies are doing us a favor by taking minor shareholdings with big premium.
# Chris Charles
Friday, April 03, 2009 12:18 AM
Ming Gong, I agree with a number of points you have made, however all your response has served to do is reinforce my arguement that the Australian government is not doing the right thing by its own people.

Thank you for making that evidently clear and for providing a vivid indication of how the Chinese sense of international superiority has and will continue to influence short sighted and greedy Australian businessmen and politicians to look after their own interests at the expense of future generations of Australians that will be left with nothing with which to negotiate.

And thank you for making it clear that China intends to continue to buy up as much of the Australian resource sector as it can in this deflated economic situation.

I note with considerable interest however, your brash and arrogant dismissal of my simple request to supply a short list of (corporate or government) foreign investment holdings in Chinese State owned companies that are listed on the Chinese stock market and, to list the percentage of each share holding.

As I suspected, you have not been able to provide such a list. Is it simply because it would be very hard to find any companies that met these requirements at all?

Nor were you able to provide any source to verify the upper limit of foreign ownership that is allowed by the Chinese government. Do you even know what it is? Does anybody know outside the Communist Party politburo?

Perhaps it is not me, Ming Gong, that you need to educate?

Andrew Forrest is indeed a clever man who has made a lot of money through his dealings with your country but the problem that we Australians have is that the resources he is selling, not only the iron ore that his company mines , but much worse, the actual mineral deposits that are still beneath the Australian ground should not be allowed to be traded.

It is completely against the best interests of this country, as it is in your own country, to sell natural assets ( or large fruit juice companies ) of value to foreign corporations or governments via their thinly veiled trading arms such as Hunan Valin and Chinalco.

You are very quick to call Senator Joyce a liar for the comments he made but you have not been able to come up with any contrary evidence from even one reliable source that supports the claims you have made.

Until you can do that, Ming Gong, I think you should pull your head in and apologise to Senator Joyce, a man that the public of this democratic nation saw fit to elect to its parliament. Something that we are still able to do in this country, unlike your own.

You have very few manners and very little to say that is valid.
# Chris Charles
Friday, April 03, 2009 1:12 AM
The Australian 28/03/09: "Labor suffers from China syndrome"

Somehow, I missed this article on the day that it come out but it is certainly worth a read.

Ming Gong, you might take interest in some of the readers' comments. I did.

Link to article: http://snipurl.com/f2vgu
# Chris Charles
Friday, April 03, 2009 1:45 AM
Read what Dr Jonathan West had to say about the GFC, Kevin Rudd's misguided stimulus packages and our addictive and perilous relationship with China...

Link to ABC article: http://snipurl.com/f2xg3

Dr Jonathan West is a Professor of Innovation and Director, Australian Innovation Research Centre.

He has recently returned to Australia after 18 years at Harvard University where he undertook his doctorate and masters degrees.

At Harvard, Dr West was Associate Professor at the Graduate School of Business Administration. He taught in the fields of innovation, operations, and business strategy.

Dr West was founder and faculty director of the Harvard Life Sciences Project, a multi-faculty university initiative to understand the economic dynamics of the revolution in life sciences.
# Sydney Lawrence
Friday, April 03, 2009 7:05 AM
What I would like to know is how can Andrew Forrest be given the authority to sell part of Australia to foreigners. Certainly he can manage the mines, even own them, buy to export ownership of Australia's heritage to overseas control is vile and shows scant regard for future generations of Australians.
# Chris Charles
Friday, April 03, 2009 10:40 AM
Well Sydney, as usual, I agree with you. It has been raised before but needs to be verified by somebody with better knowledge of the Constitution than myself, i.e. the issue of mining rights and their trading limitations.

Somebody suggested earlier that if mining rights were issued to 'Entity A' who was unable to utilise them to make a profitable return and found themselves in financial difficulty or became insolvent, that instead of being able to trade the rights directly or seek investment on the basis of holding said mining rights, they should be forced to relinquish the rights in light of their financial difficulty and the title should return to and remain with the commonwealth until such a time that another entity applied for them, which would need to be reviewed on several criteria, one of which would be the level of foreign ownership associated with the application.

Their should also be provision for a mining company to seek investment from the Australian Future Fund so that the mining company could remain largely Australian owned and the mining profits would partly serve as a revenue stream for the Future Fund itself.

I know this argument has flaws in it, but it is at least something of a starting point for discussion as to where we want to go in the future in managing what is left of our mineral resources.

I don't advocate exclusion of foreign investment in our mining sector, that would be a ridiculous proposal. I purely object to the permanent sale of resources, especially undeveloped speculative mineral deposits such as Cape Lambert and Mount Gibson, to foreign corporations and governments whereby all Australia ends up with is a small royalty cheque. It's like collecting parking tokens in the carpark underneath the Macquarie Bank. Big deal!

Unfortunately, the mining industry should have been managed a lot better right from the start. At least 50 years of mismanagement by succesive Liberal and Labor governments has put us in this situation where we are down to our last 20% of our natural resource pool.

That should make every Australian very sad.
# Garry
Friday, April 03, 2009 11:17 AM

Chris Charles, thanks for that link, it should be compulsory reading for all Australians. Especially our politicians.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/02/27/2503430.htm
# Chris Charles
Friday, April 03, 2009 11:34 AM
No worries, Garry.

I particularly think this excerpt is worth syndicating here:

What to do?

So instead of relying on China for Australia's future growth, what is the answer? Dr West was not industry specific.

"What governments should be doing in my view is investing in profit centres, investing in capabilities which create long term income streams. Where is the Federal Government's package of investment in productive capacity? Where is the investment in science and technology that can build our industries and give them sustainable long term advantage? Where is the investment in productive infrastructure?"

The NSW jobs summit appeared confronted by the enormity of the problem now produced by the China syndrome, Australia's now addictive dependence on China's growth."

Amen

Garry, send an email to Barnaby advising him to forward it to me if you'd like to get in touch.
# Chris Charles
Friday, April 03, 2009 12:06 PM
A New World Order? Did I order that?

I wonder what the Chinese response to the proposed NWO will be, as it includes the removal of most obstructions to to free trade, and gives the organising body the right to regualate national policies.

They want a bigger say in the IMF and are prepared to pay for it monetarily but will they go so far as to allow these kind of outside policy influences? I just can't see it happening.

Here's the article if you care to read it.

Link: http://www.infowars.com/world-bank-president-admits-agenda-for-global-government/

This is a 'must read' if you want to know what they've got in store for us.
# William Joiner
Friday, April 03, 2009 7:55 PM
I had a look at this link, and find it absolutely amazing that the media do not inform the Australian people about things like this that come out of G20.

Maybe the Australian people do not wish to have global monitary unit to replace our dollar, etc, etc. After all, if we had gone down the path of being independant from the rest of the world twenty years ago, we would not be following them down the path of recession right now. Also, our soverieignty would not be under threat Being independent does not mean that we connot make money through trade, infact we would have more to sell if the government gave our citizens cheap power and raw materials to make things with. More career jobs also.

I think this path that we are taking, ie, one world financial government should be compared to and debated with the alternative idea of Australia developing as an independebt country. Anyway, the Australian people should be informed so they can make a decision before it is introduced by stealth after the next election, by whom ever is elected. The path we are following at present distributes huge wealth to a few people at the top, gives the middle class some and neglects the lower classes. There is never any lower class reform, eg, PAYEE tax reform, only hand outs to a few groups before elections. It is rediculous anyone earning under $20K should pay tax. This is why I voted against Howard at the last election. Unfortunately, Rudd the dud is no better.

I personally believe that Australia would develop quiet well independently, as this country has great wealth with a small population. If we were independently strong, we would be able to assist the rest of the world who are going to fail with this global concept. Knowing human nature, they will never be able to agree on any universal format for anything. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link, and I see plenty of weak links in the other world nations.
# Richard Murray
Friday, April 03, 2009 8:21 PM
Chinese already dictating prices > reduced demand ??

You be the judge !


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601081&sid=a3xnMoNEpiuA&refer=australia
# Chris Charles
Friday, April 03, 2009 9:45 PM
Hi William, is it just a coincidence that at the moment, around the world there is a socialist tilt on the power base?
1. America elects Barrack Obaba, a Democrat.
2. The UK elects Gordon Brown, a Labour Party man. (Incidentally, I do like that the UK Labour Party can spell its own name correctly, unlike the 'Labor' Party of Australia.)
3. Australia elects Comrade Rudd, a noodle eating Maoist if ever there was one.
4. New Zealand has replaced Helen Clark (Labour, correctly spelt) with a National Party man, John Key. Helen Clark has rushed over to assume the/a position of United nations Development Chief,
5. And of course, there's China.

There seems to be a lot of socialist mantra in the air at the G20 Summit.

Not forgetting that G.W. Bush and his dad both proposed a new World Order as did Clinton, Kissinger and Eisenhower. It is nothing new really. As a concept, it's been in discussion for decades.

It's just wrong that our elected pollies don't want to talk to us about it and the media for whatever reason don't want to cover it. It stinks. Seems Paris Hilton's new boy toy is far more newsworthy.

Do your own research, just search Google and Youtube for "New World Order", "Globalization" (with a 'z' and then with an 's') and "Free Trade" - the YouTube stuff is fascinating.

Now, don't get me started on Bill Clinton conspiracy theories!
# Chris Charles
Friday, April 03, 2009 9:56 PM
Nice pick up Richard Murray. To be expected though. I'd just like to know how this is in our best interest as a nation?

Oh, Ming Gong... where are you???

Come back Ming, I miss you!

By the way, did you all hear that today, ASIC announced that it was taking Forrest to court for misrepresentation of the deals he did with China in 2004?
Why is this man put on such a high pedestal?

All he's done is find a few nice Iron Ore digs, filled in some application forms for the mining rights and traded the potential worth as futures on the markets then sold the mining rights to the Chinks. What has he actually 'produced'?
# William Joiner
Friday, April 03, 2009 10:34 PM
I think that Globalization and uncontrolled deregulation has let the world and this country to exactly the position that it is in now, a recession. It is definately a boom/bust type method that allows people to manipulate the system. As well as Rudd and Swan giving away our mines and spending the surplus, Swan has locked up 260,000 self funded retirees accounts with his bank dollar garantee that is worth over 15 billion dollars and was constantly being spent. It also had the effect of making investment in mortgage trusts unviable. These trusts provide a lot of finance to businesses. I believe Labour is setting us up for an eventual complete Chinese takeover by bankrupting our country. Remember what Keeting said, "Australia is just part of Asia".
# Chris Charles
Friday, April 03, 2009 10:55 PM
Well, at least somebody gets it. 100% correct. We have been set up by this government and several others before it. How does it feel?
# Chris Charles
Friday, April 03, 2009 11:11 PM
Peter Costello gets up there and brags about the great surplus he left to Labor at the last election, as though he actually did something positive in his period as treasurer to generate it.

He did absolutely NOTHING other than sell off every piece of the silverware he could get his grubby hands on. Selling assets and banking the profits doesn't require any level of genius, Peter. He needs to be told that, the smug Cheshire Fat Cat that he is.

We needed a government that was focused on Australia, built some industries and infrastructure for the future and gave us back some potential export ability. Howard / Costello were certainly not that. And neither are Rudd / Swan & Co. In fact, they are considerably worse.

No goals and no long term vision for the country. Only interested in free trade agreement meetings and UN conferences that may one day lead to the ultimate career goal of Secretary of the UN ... if the cards are played right in the lead up. The offset cost of course is our nation's sovereignty and the debilitation of our wealth generation mechanisms. So tragically sad.

We elect people on the basis that they'll do the best they can for our country and they just lie straight to your face. They'll say anything to get what they want. I call that 'evil'.

Dr Jonathan West put it well, but it's the same stuff I've been saying for years and my family and friends mostly just roll their eyes and go, "...he's a crackpot. Here he goes again!" Well, time will tell...

Nice to meet some similar minded Australians on here though. I would like Senator Joyce to do something so that we can exchange email addresses. That's if you fellows would be agreeable. I am a raving crackpot, you know!
# Garry
Saturday, April 04, 2009 1:12 AM
Raving crackpot or not, Chris Charles, your post on the Howard/Costello performance pretty well echoes my own reckoning. I too, never thought they were good country managers. Rather they simply carried on with selling the family silver at a time of high prices and kept bleating to us on how good they were with money management.

All ships get lifted with a rising tide – best describes their performance.

In effect, a no-policy party, where their focus to this day is still on the nitty gritty of politics, per se, as if it were important. Yet well designed country building initiatives rarely make it to the agenda – Save for digging our god given assets out of the ground.

Time on, and Rudd and Co seem to be perpetuating the same fiction. Which is a shame because they got into office on the promise of reform.

****************


Now back to the Fitzgibbon/Liu discussion – the plot is thickening because Chen Yonglin, a former political officer at the Sydney consulate, who defected to Australia some years ago as a result of the very things we have been mulling over. ie: PRC spivs operating in Australia, etc, and he claims Ms Liu is one of those heavy hitters, who no doubt groomed Fitzgibbon and other weak minded politicos.

Further, Mr Fitzgibbon also refused to discuss whether he intended to continue renting a Canberra residence owned by Ms Liu's family, following revelations that officials in the Defence Department's security and intelligence areas had deemed it a potential security risk.

As I see it, to make this statement our security forces have probably swept the place for cameras and bugs - the results of which, we will never know.

However, what is written in stone is Mr Yonglin’s claim that a large number of PRC operatives have been at work in Australia - including Ms Liu, who had close relations with the embassy and the consulate.


http://www.theage.com.au/national/lius-40000-gifts-aided-ministers-campaigns-20090403-9rm4.html


# Chris Charles
Saturday, April 04, 2009 3:48 AM
Wow! He is cheap, isn't he? $40,000 buys you a Defence Minister! I'd have thought he'd be worth considerably more than the price of a mid sized economy car. Ms Liu certainly does drive a hard bargain, doesn't she?

I wonder how much she would pay these days for a second hand ex-NSW Premier? I guess it's all market driven though, isn't it? In this current GFC, it would be only pure speculation to guess. If anyone has her number, please let me know. I'd love to give her a call and ask her what she thinks she could pick up a well cared for but slightly gutless ACCC Chairman. If the price was right, I could be interested.

I mean, what does $40,000 buy you these days, (...apart from an ALP Defence Minister) ?? The deposit on a very small outer suburban house in Adelaide perhaps? Or maybe 666 Rio Tinto shares at $60 a pop. (...funny that number, huh?) It would also buy 689,655 Oz Minerals shares but then again, who'd want them really? As our good friend Ming Gong said, it would be much better to wait until they file for bankruptcy and pick up a real bargain then.

$40,000 would also buy an out-of-work Defence Minister 16,000 Fortescue shares, though if he waits a couple of days he may be able to up that to around 16,500 ... maybe 17k at a pinch. Depends what the market thinks of Twiggy being taken to court by ASIC for misrepresentation on his dealings with China.

However, if the Minister was seeking my advice on how he might best spend his hard earnt nest egg, I'd probably suggest that he lash out on a handful of one-way business class tickets for himself and his family to his favourite Asian destination and with the change left over, he could slap down a deposit on a nice little rice paddock on the outskirts of Nanjing Provence. It's right by the delta, and only an hour's bike ride to the lovely Shanghai coast. Bound to become a tourist hot spot very soon!
# Chris Charles
Saturday, April 04, 2009 4:10 AM

Great post BTW, Garry. I thought the comments of Chen Yonglin about Ms Liu were very interesting.

""I know she had close relations with the embassy and the consulate," said Chen Yonglin, a former political officer at the Sydney consulate. "You could say intimate."

Intimate? What does he mean? More gifts? A soothing back rub for the visiting envoys, perhaps? This is simply titillating now, isn't it! What will it be next? Alexander Downer in a pair of Helen Liu's fishnets and heels... This is too much!

When poor old Chen defected over here and announced that China had over 1,000 other spies working overtly I though, "Oh, oh..., the 'you know what' is going to fly now. ASIO will be kicking down doors all over Chatswood and St Ives. The locksmiths are going to have a field day!

But alas, that was the last we heard of the scandal. Not another bloody peep. Not one arrest reported, not a single interview of Chinese born persons anywhere on the nightly news. The whole matter just went away.

Can you imagine if the situation were reversed and an Australian intelligence agent was flipped in Beijing and then announced that Australia had 1,000 other spies working all over China? Do you think in that scenario, the situation would have been as low key as it was here?

How many Helen Liu's are out there and how many politicians and bureaucrats have been touched up? My guess would be that it is a VERY long list.

On a brighter note, welcome to Australia, Mr Chen! I hope you are enjoying your stay.
# Chris Charles
Saturday, April 04, 2009 4:32 AM
You all really should read this...

Link: http://www.smh.com.au/world/soft-power-hard-choices-20090403-9qij.html?page=-1

Too many good quotes in one article! Here's just a sample:

"Despite three decades of economic growth, for example, half of the people live on $US2 a day or less. Illiteracy has doubled since 2000. China has become the most unequal Asian country and one of the more corrupt. Officially recorded instances of mass unrest reached 87,000 in 2005. Chinese economists are worried about the sustainability of China's economic approach."

Read it for yourself. Good stuff.
# Chris Charles
Saturday, April 04, 2009 4:35 AM
Finally, it seems the media is seeing the light and talking sensibly and (reasonably) objectively about Rudd's relations with China. About bloody time!

http://www.smh.com.au/world/rudds-manchu-muddle-20090403-9qih.html?page=-1

And if you like a little espionage with your morning coffee, read this...

http://www.smh.com.au/world/chinese-whispers-20090403-9qil.html
# Sydney Lawrence
Saturday, April 04, 2009 7:33 AM
Chris, Garry, William and all. This discussion established and originated by Senator Joyce proves that there is interest about what is happening in, and to, Australia at the moment.

The problem is the apathy of the Australian people and the "she'ill be right mate" attitude plays right into the Australian Government hands. They know that after a short time the complainers will run out of steam and all will return to normal.

I have experienced this apathy myself when upon seeing a plan by the Rudd Government to transfer Australia's vital National Broadband Network, with the assistance of $4.7 billion taxpayer money, to overseas control, I made various complaints.

Our fight to enlighten the Australian people as to the loss of our heritage, via the sale of vital assets to overseas control, must continue and must be escalated if it is to be effective.

My suggestion, and here is where the serious must contribute with action, is to consider, with guidance from Senator Joyce, the production of a protest group to travel to Canberra when Parliament sits next.

Unless we take some positive action we will simply be preaching to the converted and while feeling good will achieve little. Just a thought as the intelligent and prophetic contributors to this Site demonstrate we are on a dangerous path at the moment and that Australians are concerned.
# William Joiner
Saturday, April 04, 2009 7:37 AM
Barnaby can give you my em address Chris and any others that want it. I am a scientist, speciality electronic software. I think that we have had 20 years of this country being led by merchant types, ie, people who make money (usually for themselves) by way of taxes and selling stuff. Unless Australia changes this type of leadership, I cannot see us making any progress as these type of leaders are just in it for themselves. Australia needs science, and a proper topdown design plan to take our country and the world into the 21st century. I have submited some ideas for sustainable communities and water creation under the topic "Where are the big Projects" Unless we look to reducing uncontrolled urban sprawl on our east coast, we will finish up with no quality of life which is what happens with overcrowding. Ever heard a polly talk about uncontrolled urban sprawl? What are Labour and Lib policies to counteract uncontrolled urban sprawl? Its a hard thing to do to live in a big city with overcrowding and failing infrastructure.
# Chris Charles
Saturday, April 04, 2009 10:38 AM
Sydney, William, Garry: We all seem to be funadmentally in agreement so I would like to second Sydney's suggestion that it is vital that this be taken to the next step and a proper protest group is formed.

Not only should their be a representation to Canberra, we should aim for every capital city as well.

Could one of you tell me as I don't often get the chance myself to listen, has this subject been raised lately on any of the commercial talkback radio programmes? Ideally, 2GB, 2UE, and their major city sister stations should be approached with this story. A phone call explaining this situation from the the 'right' angle could stimulate days of talkback.

It's these sorts of campaigns that I would like to discuss with you three away from here, as no doubt, we are now being monitored by a variety of interested factions.

Barnaby, for the third time, could you pass on my email address to Garry, William and Sydney please?

He's starting to behave like a regular politician! You ask and nothing happens....
# Garry
Saturday, April 04, 2009 12:26 PM
Chris Charles, your thoughts on going beyond the remit of what Senator Joyce originally intended certainly have merit, however I think it may be leaning on him a bit much.

Perhaps explained in the following post

*****************

Hello Ming Gong, regarding your comments of Apr 02. It should be evident the content of the posts on this web page have nothing to do with Senator Joyce, indeed, they are purely the work of contributors expressing their own views and their own logic, which in some cases may be at odds with those of the Senator.

He merely prefaced this page with his own thoughts then invited the public carry on with their input. Democracy we call it – a freedom of speech process that would not be tolerated in the PRC.

Senator Joyce has done nothing more than provide a mechanism for seeking opinion on a public forum, which in the view of a growing number of Australians, is long overdue - So please leave it at that.

He has added nothing, nor has he encouraged an agenda or campaign, as you suggest he has. Though by all means carry on expressing your own thoughts, so we of differing views can absorb the thrust of your argument.

Now on this point, I would suggest your contribution of Apr 02 has flaws, in that, Andrew Forrest was “momentarily” Australia’s richest man merely by dint of the inflated paper value of his shares in Fortescue – and nothing more. Further, the notion of Fortescue Metals building factories, railways and communities in the desert, has flaws. When all they are doing is providing suitable infrastructure for the life of the mineral resource, and once it’s gone, as it will be one day, the place will turn back into desert.

Which after all is one of the topics of discussion here. That is, ultimately handing a future generation of Australians “the Nauru effect” - a hollowed out lifeless patch of land - good for nothing.

Speaking of Nauru, in recent times one of the foreign resource extraction companies tried to re-start a mining operation there, which resulted in the natives setting fire to the load conveyor system. Such was their wrath at being left in a poverty stricken state from past mining operations.

From the above, it might be gathered we first and foremost place primary blame on our own short sighted political managers, then add to it in a secondary manner when a nation state(in this case, the PRC) is allowed to take advantage of our simple minded polticos.

As you can see there’s a growing view we have weak minded political mangers who conduct our affairs like drug addicts. In our case, their addiction is the easy life of selling off god given mineral assets without ever giving a thought to actually building a modern day economy.

We are cursed with natural riches. That’s our problem.
# William Joiner
Saturday, April 04, 2009 3:26 PM
I think we should create a statistical website, where people could go and enter a yes/no vote on a list of government and opposition policies and also other policies that are not under consideration.

There would be a displayed approval rating based on the yes vote and the overall number of votes. The number of people who voted would also be shown.

Also, people would be able to give each politician an approval rating of 0-10, with the average also displayed against their name.

Voting would require a name and internet address and only one entry from that user per item would be accepted.

Also available would be back ground reading on all policies and politicians.

I'd like to suggest a few questions.

Do you approve with selling Australias sovereign mining assets to the Peoples Republic of China? (Y/N)

Should people earning less than $20K per year pay income tax? (Y/N)

Do you think that PM Rudds stimulus packages are working? (Y/N)

Do you think Australia should pull out of Afganistan? (Y/N)

Do you support the Australian government passing on massive debt to
the next generation? (Y/N)

Also, people should be allowed to suggest questions that would be considered for listing on the site.

I suggest that this website would be a plus for Barnaby and maybe he would like to sponser it. It could also become a future method by which a referendum type result could be obtained quickly from a large number of Australians. Newpapers and TV just eat up this stuff too.
# Chris Charles
Saturday, April 04, 2009 7:51 PM
Hi William,

I could create a site like the one you are suggesting fairly easily using PHP / MySQL or PostgresSQL / Javascript. No big problem there.

The only way the media would buy in to it is if they could see a way to make a quick buck out of it, as they regularly do with evening news phone in polls.

Your referendum idea is one I have toyed with conceptually for a few years now. Just never felt like getting into such a project on my own. It would again, not be so hard to build. The more difficult issue would be bandwidth, traffic management and redundancy issues / site mirroring to accommodate the high traffic spikes you would anticipate on such a platform.

I don't know why the government has never gone down this path for state and federal elections. The technology is there. It would remove all the paper and printing associated with an election (enormous greenie points) and all but eliminate electoral fraud and multiple voting.

Maybe I've just answered my own question, have I?
# William Joiner
Sunday, April 05, 2009 6:38 AM
Instead of a new web site, I suppose the petition on this site is sufficient.

To get more participation, Barnaby could put advertisments in all the major newspapers revealing his web site and urging people to go and sign the petition. Releasing participation numbers to the new media would be critical.
# Sydney Lawrence
Sunday, April 05, 2009 7:57 AM
The petition suggestions are good but really I do not think that any pressure would be placed on politicians to seriously consider them or their content.

We all know that the only thing politicians understand (apologies Barnaby) is numbers, and those numbers presented visually so as to attract attention, particularly from the Press. As previously stated it is very difficult, because of apathy, to generate enough interest to get people involved and to respond.

I do know that if fifty people, of like mind, were to legally protest in front of Parliament House in Canberra they would receive more attention than names on a petition. Our cause is serious, it is the future of the Australian people. No matter who owns it, Australia will always be here it's simply that the wealth that Australia creates will not remain in Australia.

I think it would be a great idea if we could arrange a meeting to endeavour to formulate situations that may be workable. Perhaps Senator Joyce could extend the information of our E-Mail address to all who request it.
# William Joiner
Sunday, April 05, 2009 8:31 AM
I hear that Rudd is borrowing 2 billion a week and issuing government bonds, etc to pay for it. Guess who is buying up all the debt, China Looks like they will have plenty of clout in the future when dealing with our government and our mineral rights. Goodbye to the rest of the farm.
# William Joiner
Sunday, April 05, 2009 9:07 AM
Why is China being allowed to buy up all this debt? Surely the Future Fund should be used so Australians can buy into their own country. I feel that we are being sold out by our own government. The G20 is only serving to divert our attention away from this problem.
# Chris Charles
Sunday, April 05, 2009 9:10 AM
William, what is your source for that claim of $2b per week? I have read elsewhere that it was $50m per week and $500m per month.

There seems to be some confusion on this out there. It would be good to get to the bottom of this.
# Chris Charles
Sunday, April 05, 2009 9:25 AM

Here's more proof that our Kevvie really has lost his marbles.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/03/24/2525077.htm
# Chris Charles
Sunday, April 05, 2009 9:33 AM

More Chinese buy outs of Australian companies to come.

http://www.bloomberg.com.au/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=asZmM4S4I5rY&refer=home

# William Joiner
Sunday, April 05, 2009 10:11 AM
Chris, I heard it on "Meet the Press" this morning
# Garry
Tuesday, April 07, 2009 12:29 AM

" I hear that Rudd is borrowing 2 billion a week and issuing government bonds"

The debt is being used to fund his stimulus programs etc, where citizens go out and spend the money on foreign goods.
# Garry
Thursday, April 09, 2009 12:46 AM
The Fitzgibbon plot thickens


"" A company called Ausboc Pty Ltd was the second-biggest shareholder in Ms Liu's property development firm, Wincopy, which in 1998 donated $20,000 to Mr Fitzgibbon's NSW Hunter electorate campaign fund.

Documents show the ultimate holding company for Ausboc was the Bank of China, which at that time was wholly owned and directed by the Chinese Government in Beijing. ""


""" The Bank of China has a history of political controversy abroad. In 1997, it was was embroiled in a row in the US over an alleged effort by the Chinese Government to influence domestic American politics during the 1996 presidential and congressional election campaign.

A US Senate committee later cited evidence that the Chinese Government had sought to influence US political processes through largely covert contributions to the Democratic Party. These claims were denied by Chinese authorities. ""


http://www.theage.com.au/national/ministers-new-china-link-20090408-a0tg.html
# Garry
Thursday, April 09, 2009 12:59 AM

PRC Tactics with Fortescue Metals Group


" Chinese companies wanted control of Fortescue, and as the company was resisting "we will teach them a lesson", Mr He said. "

http://business.theage.com.au/business/chinese-vowed-to-teach-fortescue-a-lesson-20090408-a0wt.html


Candidly, I think this quest to dominate our natural resources has to be examined in far more detail than Mr Swan normally applies, as it is pretty obvious they are not normal commercial transactions, shareholdings etc.

# Sydney Lawrence
Thursday, April 09, 2009 6:16 AM
Senator Joyce you seriously disappoint me. You support (currently being used in a press release from Senator Conroy) for the 43 billion dollar Government NBN fantasy land proposal, which will be a financial disaster for the Australian taxpayer, for your own political promotion is very sad. Mr. Turnbull is correct this 43 billion folly will end in financial turmoil for Australia.
# Sydney Lawrence
Thursday, April 09, 2009 9:49 PM
Barnaby good interview tonight and hope you are feeling much better. My question would be, and it may be years down the track, that when China does gain the power to decide price for supply from their Australian mines what could stop them from setting prices at a very low level. This would be damaging for Australian export income but very advantagous for China.
# Chris Charles
Thursday, April 09, 2009 10:37 PM

Nothing! That's the whole damn point. It is EXACTLY what the Chinese WILL do.

Wouldn't you, if you were in their shoes?
# Chris Charles
Thursday, April 09, 2009 11:05 PM

BTW, Garrry, I forwarded your last post (pun intended) to Malcolm Turnbull, Alan Jones, Ray Hadley, Chris Smith and a few other less notable colleagues.

I think Forrest has gotten himself tangled up in something far more sticky than he ever imagined.

Just goes to show who we are dealing with and how they play their cards.

Warning to future resource sector billionaires: Be very careful whom you keep as bedfellows and don't be so hasty to sell off what isn't yours to begin with. There's no such thing as a quick buck or a free lunch. Just ask Laurie Connell about WA Inc. Oh wait... you can't. He topped himself in prison didn't he?

Well, you can read about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WA_Inc

There are a number of circumstantial and behavioural similarities between the current politico-economic situation and the period known as WA Inc. that are starting to emerge. And as the saying goes, "those who do not learn the lessons of history are destined to repeat them."

Garry, did you get my email address? Are you not talking to us? Sydney, Bill and I would like it very much if you'd join us off forum.
# Garry
Wednesday, April 15, 2009 9:08 PM
Chris- Yes I did get the mail, however I’m time poor at the moment to do anything but make a small contribution here on the odd occasion.

In recent times Oz Minerals, a company formed only last year from the merger of gold miner Oxiana and zinc producer Zinifex, has, through bad management got itself into a fix, where it is now desperate for money, naturally first turning to Chinese buyers for a bailout by way of huge asset sales(Our assets - Our god given natural resources).

Wayne Swan, having initially knocked back the sale of a principal asset because of security concerns, then invited alternative proposals in the door, and in the last few days these have been agreed upon by the parties concerned, Minmetals(the Chinese side of the bargain) and Oz, the seller of Australia’s future, in order for it to bail its own shareholders out of trouble.

In my view, the very concept of this deal stinks because it goes to the core of much of the above discussion. That is, selling off Australia to foreign entities for their exclusive use.

Let see what the FIRB and Swan with his rubber stamp do with this one. Which by the way, includes one of the largest Zinc mines in the world.
# Sydney Lawrence
Friday, April 17, 2009 8:26 AM
The sheer dishonest hypocrisy of the Rudd Government is a sad reflection on the ability of the Australian electorate to understand and identify the three card trick that is being perpetrated on them. This is demonstrated by the high (at the moment) approval rating of Mr Rudd.

The globetrotting exercises that he embarks on in an endeavour to ingratiate himself to other leaders are sickening. His “cash splash” while achieving little will ensure future generations of Australians a debt ridden existence. His plan to sell our mineral inheritance to foreigners will long be remembered as the curse and folly of our age.

His latest lunacy is to spend $43 billion on a broadband white elephant, without any costing or market evaluation, which he then plans to sell to the Australian public, after having destroyed Telstra (by the confiscation of Telstra plant and equipment) is the latest delusional dream of a Government that unless stopped will leave Australians as the white trash of Asia.

My thoughts are not without foundation as can be demonstrated by the fact that in a short period of time Australians have seen a $20 billion surplus turned into a $30 billion deficit without benefit for Australians. Concerning the sale of our mines to overseas interests Australians should remember that like the family silver once you sell it you, and your children lose it forever.
# Chris Charles
Friday, April 17, 2009 9:48 AM
This story is so old I believe it was one of Aesop's Fables. How significant it is, even in this modern day.

A lark singing at the top of a tree saw a man walking through the woods holding a small box.He asked the man, "What do you have in that box?"

The man said, "Worms. I will sell you a worm for one of your feathers."

The lark plucked out one feather and took his worm. As he did so, he said to himself, "Why work when it is so easy to get food this way?"

This exchange continued every day through the Spring and Summer. But after several months the lark had no more feathers to pay for the worms.

By now, the lark could no longer fly and as Winter approached he was in terrible trouble as he was unable to find food for himself.

Like the lark, we may seek short cuts to gain the things we need. But just like the lark, we will find the price is high and eventually we may learn that no short cuts to fulfilment exist.

The only path to true fulfilment is honest work.

# Chris Charles
Friday, April 17, 2009 5:21 PM
Maybe this is the first time I've ever agreed with the opinion of Gough Whitlam but ... well, read this:

http://cecaust.com.au/main.asp?sub=releases&id=2009_04_02_Golden_Rule.html
# Garry
Friday, April 17, 2009 7:40 PM
" Foreigners do Australians the honour of employing them to dig up their own wealth, to be exported overseas…"


Thanks for the link Chris, it pretty much reflects how I feel about the situation.

A cursory look around Australia's mining sector reveals that we control a mere fragment of our assets, though I'm not sure about nationalising them, as Whitlam suggested. Rather, I think we desperately need to take stock of our long term future needs, then embark on a course of action to make the most of it, even if that means we have to take a cut in living standards in the here-and-now.

The Lark metaphor says it all, we have been living with a short term mentality for far too long.

Here's a link to a US past president, Herbert Hoover, who started the highly profitable Sons of Gwalia mining operation in WA many years ago. Yes, we had a US President working in Australia.

One would do well to read this entire script in detail and soak up his working philosophies on how countries should be built for long term prosperity

However it's not for the mainstream Canberra set. Instead they prefer to sell "Terra Australis" for their revenue stream, without ever a thought to the longevity of the plan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Hoover

# Chris Charles
Monday, April 20, 2009 8:37 AM
I wouldn't normally post an entire article but... what is going on here??? China can enforce protectionism when foreign companies look to buy in to them but nobody else can do the same? How arrogant are these people? Read it for yourself.. (from SMH 20/04/09)

Forrest, China in talks over Pilbara push
John Garnaut Hainan Island, China
April 20, 2009

THE founder of Fortescue Metals Group, Andrew Forrest, is pursuing talks with China's sovereign wealth fund about investing many billions to expand its Pilbara iron ore mine.

Mr Forrest dined with China Investment Corp's chief, Lou Jiwei, at the Boao economic forum on Friday night.

The Herald saw Mr Forrest in further talks with a CIC official, Bai Xiaoqing, in the gardens of the Sofitel Hotel on Saturday.

One source close to discussions said the $US200 billion fund was seeking to finance a mammoth mine expansion in a way that was financially structured to avoid triggering problems with Australia's Foreign Investment Review Board. The proposed investment would allow CIC to share in the profit "upside" without exercising control or management participation, the source said.

Another source cautioned "we're not ready to do a deal at this point in time".

The issue of control and management influence rights would appear to be a stumbling block to any deal with CIC. At the Boao forum on Saturday, Mr Lou bluntly dismissed European and US calls for sovereign wealth funds to provide greater transparency, cap the size of their investments to less than 10 per cent and forgo shareholder voting rights.

"If we invest in something we must have voting rights," he said. "How can we just abstain from exercising voting rights? We cannot accept this principle."

Without naming individual countries, he also slammed "the emergence of financial protectionism" in the developed world, including what he described as vaguely defined national security tests. "There must be a very explicit definition of national security of recipient states," he said.

The world's sovereign wealth funds were banding together to make their case, he said. "We have decided to set up a club to share our opinions and fight against financial protectionism."

While Mr Forrest and CIC are courting each other, Fortescue's earlier $1.2 billion investment deal with Hunan Valin Steel continues to await Chinese Government approval - despite efforts by both sides to track down the responsible official at Bo'ao over the weekend.

In an impromptu joint interview on Friday night, Mr Forrest and Valin's chairman, Li Xiaowei, dismissed speculation that the National Development & Reform Commission boss, Zhang Ping, was deliberately withholding his approval in order to send a message that he was unhappy about the Australian Government imposing conditions and restrictions on Chinese investments.

"This process going on is actually going much faster than we anticipated," Mr Li said.

"We've never heard anything negative since we applied. There shouldn't be a problem."

Fortescue reached agreement with Valin in February and received approval from the FIRB two weeks ago, with minor conditions.

A signing ceremony that had been scheduled for Sunday morning was cancelled on Saturday night.

Mr Forrest said that he had "spent considerable time" convincing Mr Li to invest in Fortescue without receiving management control beyond board representation.

"We don't come and try and advise chairman Li on how to run his steel plants," he said.

Mr Forrest, who is coming under great pressure by the Chinese steel mills to strike the first benchmark contract price agreement, said he remained optimistic about the short- and long-term outlook for Australian iron ore exports as they displace China's domestic production.

But he said it was possible the price talks may not result in any agreement this year for the first time in 40 years - an outcome that could mark the disintegration of the benchmark system in China.

Link: http://business.smh.com.au/business/forrest-china-in-talks-over-pilbara-push-20090419-abel.html

# Chris Charles
Monday, April 20, 2009 8:39 AM
Say 'good bye' to the rest of our iron ore reserves.

Twiggy's got a new way to get around the FIRB.
# Sydney Lawrence
Monday, April 20, 2009 1:06 PM
Please excuse my ignorance and explain to me how any individual Australian can apply for a mining lease, extract minerals from the Australian earth, which is fine, understandable and sensible as it creates employment and wealth, but then goes further and sells (forever) the Australian asset to be controlled by foreigners.

I can understand if a business that is owned by an individual is sold to overseas interests but what price was charged for the mining rights of these mines and did it include the possibility of outright sale to others outside Australia where these vital interests would be lost to future Australians. Methinks someone is ripping off Australia.
# Peter Swan
Wednesday, May 13, 2009 3:34 PM
The title of this article sounds a lot like the catch cry of skinhead fascists in Germany. Deutsche for Deutschland. Germans for Germany.When will Australians ever get over their xenophobic anxiety?
# Garry
Friday, May 15, 2009 11:46 PM
Hello Peter: Good lord, with a surname like Swan, one hopes you are not going to bat for your uncle Wayne - because it’s your uncle we are concerned about. And heaven forbid, we trust you are not him in drag, posting a few lines here about fascists. Which of course has been a Labor Party tactic of late.



I really wouldn’t be fixated by the thread title as a be-all unto itself, as this has been far from a public discussion about simple one-liners. That is, if one actually reads the content. Rather, it has been an open forum concerning a succession of lousy governments, and the fact that a short term politician named Swan, is as we speak, creating a “stolen generation” of his own making.

Right or wrong, there’s a widespread belief in Australia that a past generation had their lives stolen by the actions of government policies, which at the time were seen to be quite acceptable in a social sense, yet frowned upon today. Though it seems these same arrogant policies in another guise are being perpetuated to this day – insofar as, it is evident that a variety of political incumbents over the years have been advancing their money management careers by stealing from a future generation of Australians - and in doing so have almost guaranteed them a diminished quality of life. Ergo, yet another stolen generation of Australians is on the way.

Put simply, Swan and his FIRB cohorts in Canberra have on a “permanent” basis been signing off the god given assets of this country to foreign governments(NB* not just a raft of free enterprise corporations selling their wares to the world) for a fast dollar in the here-and-now, and no regard whatsoever has been made for generations of Australians yet to come. Indeed, all that matters is the immediacy of their term in office, leaving others to somehow deal with the consequences years later.

The principal of handing control of our god given natural assets to foreign entities, whether they be corporations or not, is bad enough, but it’s the rate of ownership transfer which is alarming. Indeed, more than 80% of our resources now lie with foreign entities, and it’s getting worse by the week with Swan at the helm.

By this process, Swan is consigning a future generation of Australians to a life of servitude with foreign masters – job creation, he calls it. Whereas, he is stealing their future.

Xenophobic, I think not ! Like it or not, this is Australian family business - whether you were born Italian, Philippino, or German for that matter. Therefore, shallow one-liners using labels such as Xenophobic for an emotive response to family problems are not helpful to the discussion. Indeed, some might see them as dangerously simplistic - much the same as the skinhead fascist approach.

China’s kindly outlook towards Tibetan’s, comes to mind. Though of course, that’s their business, none of ours.

That said, how about volunteering a contribution discussing some views on the remaining 20% of natural assets we have left.

# W Simpson
Tuesday, November 10, 2009 2:37 PM
I AGREE WE SHOULD REPEL THIS PROPOSED AGREEMENT AS IT SEEMS THERE IS EVIDENCE THAT REFUTES THE CURRENT PROPOSAL AND WE SHOULD MOVE FORWARD CAUTIOUSLY AND CERTAINLY NOT HAND OVER POWER TO AN INTERNATIONAL BODY IN RESPECT AUSTRALIA AND SUSPECT OTHER COUNTRIES WILL DO THE SAME.
# Bob
Tuesday, November 10, 2009 5:23 PM
Good for you Barnaby, keep them out. This harsh land is all we have and one day the west will have to clash with China, they can't be trusted. Just look at the poison foods they try to sell. The"White Australia Policy"should still be our law.
# Ian Pluis
Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:49 PM
I am in total support of any moves to stop further foreign ownership of Australia's mineral deposits, and that goes for any other Australian assets. What's wrong with the people in power in this country that they have to sell off everything that has any real value to the people of this country and our future? This land is constantly plundered for the benefit of foreign interests. Where is the benefit to the Australian people beyond any temporary fiscal gains to the Australian bottom line?
Yes, we should sell our resources to the world - at the best possible prices - not the mines or the facilities that produce them. We should no longer cower to all and sundry who seek to pay us a pittance for that which is ours and which they seek.
What do we sell when ownership is no longer ours? The minerals, including oil and gas reserves - the jobs - the intrinsic wealth and the sovereignty is the rightful property of our children and our children's children. What right does any politician have to sell that?
We have already paid too high a price for past mistakes.
# L . Johnstone.
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 8:37 AM
Dear Banaby,keep Australia Australian.
# scott casey
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 8:16 PM
I support all that you've said,but we've also got to stop these boat people coming in as well, I 'd like us having a moratorium on a lot of these issues from the Australian people, not just sitting back & letting the Government take over, no we the people ,the voters must speak out NOW!
# Kerrill Chambers
Thursday, November 12, 2009 5:20 PM
Good Even'g
I would like to note my complete disgust with and disapproval of any attempt made by this Government to sign or have any association with the Copenhagen Treaty. There is an appalling lack of information available on the issues involved, and I think the reason is simply that if people REALLY knew what the science said, everyone would vote it out.
I would suggest everyone in Govt. listen to the following links, and tell me just what they have that would prove these points incorrect. If this isn't possible, and I doubt it is, then simply do not even go to Copenhagen.
Thankyou for listening.
Regards
Kerrill


) More info + Lord Monckton speaking at www.globalclimatescam.com

Alan Jones on 2GB interviewing Lord Monckton:

http://2gb.com.au/index2.php?option=com_newsmanager&task=view&id=4998

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zOXmJ4jd-8&feature=player_embedded

# Christine Roebig
Wednesday, November 18, 2009 2:07 PM
Barnaby , well done someone is keeping us all on thrack thanks God for you . I too am a girl from St George, and I am behind you 100% Many thanks Christine Roebig
# kate fahey
Friday, November 20, 2009 11:38 AM
We must stop China invading Australia in the insidious way it is.
# Patty Morton
Friday, November 20, 2009 11:56 AM
Barney Joice has Australias welfare at heart ....... We do not need a ETS!!
# Vincent Cacciola
Saturday, November 21, 2009 10:17 AM
Co2 is not pollutant, no stupid tax will stop the polluters they will buy Carbon Credits and go on polluiting or close down buisness in Aus and move tob the third world this is what this is about we are hurting out here NSW power and water, rent through the roof very hard on $500 a week nothing left.
# barbara parnall
Tuesday, December 01, 2009 9:40 AM
who hoo barnaby well done ,stick it up them ,especially wong , what a great outcome and i say double dissollution BRING IT ON .
REGARDS barbara parnall foster victoria
# barbara parnall
Wednesday, December 09, 2009 10:36 PM
hi barnaby, did not take swan long to try to tell you what to do, stick it up them ,no one else does good luck ,barbara
# Les Saunders
Friday, December 18, 2009 8:18 AM
Hi, I have been a Liberal supporter all my life and have worked very close with the Qld branch and Kay Elson in the Forde Electorate for some seven years and served on polling booths in NSW and Qld and around this electorate, I am very upset with the way the Labor mob is trying to selling us out to the Chinese, I am convinced that Kevin Rudd and his croanies have something sinister on their agenda, I personally have endorsed the joining of the National and Liberal party and hope we have enough strength to beat this at the next election, I am in total agreement with Barnaby Joyce, unfortunately the Chinese will be a force to deal with and we have helped in making then this big, lets not step over the line and give them any more of Australia.
Sunday, January 03, 2010 1:11 PM
Good to hear some-one telling us the truth finally , many people don 't believe you as an individual , but you have given me ammunition .
It's disgusting what has been done to these farmers & that's too
mild a word . It's treason , & what happened to referendums ?? when was the last time we had 1 of those ,..excepting for a republic or to get rid of juries rejected by the people so was done by stealth .
They can't just dismiss our Constitution & Magna Carta is supposed to be for all time . Our courts are under the rule of their overseas Masters as are many of our parlimenterians , indeed our country .
Barnaby thank You for telling it like it is , & the best of luck to you & your family , we desperately need men like yourself , you realise You won't be the flavour of the month but somehow I don't think that bothers you
You tell 'em Barnaby .
# Chris Charles
Sunday, January 03, 2010 1:26 PM

Something I received from the Carbon Sense Coalition (below) for you all to consider.

What I personally want to know is, when are the governments of the world going to stop all the BS about CO2, ETS, and Copenhagen talkfests and start talking about REAL planetary issues?

These include:
pollution in the broader sense,
wasteful packaging of consumer goods,
global petrochemical dependence for everything from plastics to fertilizers,
the multitude of other greenhouse gases that are far more toxic than CO2 - Sulphuric Acid for one
and the severe and irreversible effects of the deforestation of rainforests?

These are jsut some of the REAL threats to our planet. CO2 and a ludicrous 5% ETS just do not rate in comparison.

"Indonesia is set to enter Guinness Book of World Records for the fastest pace of deforestation in the world between 2000 and 2005. An area of forest equal to 300 soccer fields is being destroyed every hour. The entry will read: "Of the 44 countries which collectively account for 90 percent of the worlds forests, the country which pursues the highest annual rate of deforestation is Indonesia with 1.8 million hectares of forest destroyed each year between 2000 - 2005."

Source: Jakarta Post 04/05/2007

______________________________________________________

Carbon Sense Coalition - Press Release - For Immediate Release

3 January 2010

“Carbon Bribery and Corruption.”

The Carbon Sense Coalition today called for an end to the practice of governments trying to buy support for their failing Ration-N-Tax Scheme using tax money raised in an underhand fashion from the same people.

The Chairman of “Carbon Sense” Mr Viv Forbes, said that since the “Climate Scare-a-Day” campaign of 2009 has failed to spook the people, the New Year will see acceleration of the next ploy - “carbon bribery and corruption”.

“This dodge aims to buy supporters with promises of handouts, exemptions, subsidies, “research” grants and market privileges.

“Handouts and privileges cost money. This is why politicians will promote carbon taxes, both direct ones like that proposed recently by France, and underhand ones like the Australian Ration-N-Tax Scheme which relies on the sale of carbon emission permits.

“The political challenge for warmist politicians is to publicise the bribes and subsidies, but conceal the taxes needed to fund them.

“The Australian Government Treasury mandarins have already concocted figures to show how the government can use their carbon tax slush fund to bribe 2.9 million voters with handouts. But their paltry bribe, estimated at $190 per voter per year, will not compensate for the loss of their jobs to China and India.

“And the other 11 million Australian voters will be much worse off.

“The rejection of the corrupt French carbon tax scheme by their Constitutional Court is a warning to all politicians – “Don’t bury carbon, bury carbon bribery and corruption”.

Viv Forbes

MS 23, Rosewood Qld 4340 Australia
Phone 0754 640 533
www.carbon-sense.com

Viv Forbes is Chairman of the Carbon Sense Coalition which opposes waste of resources, opposes pollution, and promotes the rational and sustainable use of carbon energy and carbon food.

For details on the Court rejection of the French carbon tax see: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/news/constitutional-court-strikes-down-french-carbon-tax/story-e6frg90x-1225814909377



For details on the number juggling by the Australian Treasury see: http://www.businessspectator.com.au//bs.nsf/Article/ETS-scheme-will-benefit-low-earners-Z7RM8?OpenDocument&su=AA1F584C4730D522CA25769D003C8F6A




# Christine O'Hare
Friday, January 15, 2010 8:37 AM
Dear Barnaby,
It is very very worrying when people like Liberal Peter Lindsay make disgraceful comments that Mugabe is progressive. The very leader that has expressed the opinion that homosexuals should be executed.
This extreme right wing view under Tony Abbott creates the potential when in the late 60's and 70's the medical profession used to do systemic ECT therapy on homosexuals. This was obviously based on sexuality.
Where was the media, where were our politicians.
# Chris Charles
Friday, January 15, 2010 1:25 PM
If any Australian politician did indeed make a statement to the effect that Mugabe is progressive, it would have been a very stupid and ignorant remark to make but let's keep out eyes on the prize. This thread is about keeping Australia in the hands of Australians, particularly as it relates to mineral resources which are disappearing at a rapid rate as the ALP allows the continuing sell off of these incredibly valuable assets to the Communist Chinese government. Mugabe is a criminal and a murderer, and should have been deposed years ago but that's not what this forum thread is about. Please keep on topic in future.
# david morris
Thursday, February 11, 2010 7:05 AM
I support you in this action. Keep Australia, Australian. China will use our assets to undermine our influence in the Pacif area, thus fostering their own interests to the detriment of ours. One has to review history to see how America hi-jacked an independant nation, Hawiai in the late 1900 hundreds to see how it can be done. recent events in the Pacific islands shows Chinas efforts in this direction
# Chris Charles
Thursday, February 11, 2010 9:20 AM
To Dave Morris: You mention Hawaii, but take a look at the raft of South American and African nations also that were sweet talked into big loans since the 50's that they didn't need and couldn't afford (a similar situation to the one Comrade Rudd has put us in) by the World Bank and the IMF.

When they began to default on their loans, as was inevitable, the banks would refer them to the fine print of their loan contract which would state that in such an event, the bank had the right to seize other assets including mineral resources at a price determined by the bank.

These poor and inexperienced nations had little option but to agree and were then royally shafted out of wealth that was rightfully theirs. The seized resources, although often more than enough to repay the loan if purchased at market value, were purchased for a fraction of their value, leaving the nations now with no resources and an only slightly smaller debt to repay.

If you read Joseph Stiglitz (ex-Chief Economist with the World Bank) explanation of these events it will be very clear how these deals are set up and orchestrated.

It is exactly what Kevin Rudd is doing to our country with his commie Chinese mates. Setting Australia up into a debt cycle that it is impossible to escape from only to find that our sovereign mineral wealth is on the line in very fine print.

Be aware of what this snake, Rudd, is up to. It's an old game that he's playing. He thinks he's so smart giving Australia to his Chinese overlords in this way. Shame on him for having no loyalty to this country and taking the position of PM and an oath of allegiance (or it's equivalent when sworn in) only to do what he has done. It is despicable.

Good on Barnaby Joyce for calling him out on it the other day. It needed to be said. I have been amazed that no other politician has had the cocthe end of WWII and especially inonuts to do so before hand. Good to see Abbott backing him and pointing out that the reason the ALP are all over him for speaking up on this debt dilemna is that they know BJ has the ability to hurt them. I noted with interest that Joe Hockey did what he always does and sat his fat ar$e on the fence.

While diplomatically, it is not a good idea to scare foreign investors by stating your country may not be able to repay its debts, Joe should have been also saying we should never have been put in this position in the first place and the ongoing borrowing of money from China must stop. Again, good one Barny!!
# Chris Charles
Thursday, February 11, 2010 9:50 AM
And further to my last comment, this matter of resources being sold off for a fraction of their true market worth is already happening in Australia.

Take Gorgon Gas for example, Kevin Rudd made an enormous deal about the signing of Gorgon and claimed it would net Australia $50b. Although Access Economics came out shortly after and said on their calculations, at best we might see $25-30b but the real sting is in the tail where the conglomerate of major oil companies have already signed LNG deals worth over $500b in sales to primarily Asian countries.
Why are we settling for a mere 5-10% of such an enormous deal? We should be getting nearer to 50% because without our resources, the oil companies would get nothing at all. There would be NO deal. Gorgon could have netted Australia more like $250b if we have negotiated the deal properly. We are entitled to a lot more than we are getting at present for our finite resources.

Time for Australia to wake up before it truly becomes a basket case or a banana republic.

Bad resource management has plagued this country for over 100 years but it doesn't seem to be getting any better under Rudd. In fact, it's getting worse.

PS: Apologies for the typo error in my last post. It was meant to read 'coconuts'. Somehow I pasted a snippet of text in there accidentally.
# Sue and Ted Lloyd
Tuesday, June 08, 2010 10:52 AM
Dear Mr Barnaby, We are writing to express our deep concern over the sale of our Australian agricultural land to overseas buyers. We feel that we are depriving our children and their children of their right to feel they live in their own country. How about we buy up some overseas land and see how far we get. I implore you as a person to do your utmost to prevent this happening. We were born here and have always considered it ours now we find we may in the future be infiltrated by foreign ownership which will weaken our reserves needed to feed ourselves. This must never happen we have been eroded enough by drought etc. without all the sell offs to other countries. We humbly beg your assistance on this matter A S A P. Yours sincerely Sue and Ted Lloyd. Rural Australians and concerned citizens.
# Chris Newman
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 4:38 PM
Hi Barnaby,
I had to send you a note to congratulate you on your overwhelming success in the Channel 7 debate this morning.
Please show more of us the Green policies which you spoke about this morning.
People should know more about the Greens policies.
Good on you Mate.
Regards,
Chris Newman
# Chris Charles
Wednesday, January 05, 2011 1:30 PM
I would like to agree with 'it support' makes that the serious problem of our debt crisis is underpinned by our mineral assets. This is the same stupid situation that numerous South American and African nations found themselves in during the '50's, 60's and 70's when enormous loans were made to them by the IMF and World Bank. Substitute the IMF / World Bank for the Chinese Communist Party and the desired outcome is going to be the same. Read John Perkins, "Confessions Of An Economic Hitman' to learn more about this topic. Australian politicians that aren't in on the conspiracy to ruin this nation through unsurmountable debt and turn the country into a 3rd world disaster zone need to step up now and challenge Gillard and Co on their outrageous borrowing and wasteful spending practices before its too late. The clock is definitely ticking loudly on this one. Immediate action required. That is, if it's not already too late. Get ready to eat a lot of rice and work 16 hour days for a communist state pretty soon, people.
# Chris Charles
Thursday, February 17, 2011 2:12 PM
The previous comment about Ugg boots and Pandora products appears to me to be merely SPAM posted to improve the Search Engine Optimisation of the sites that it links to. There appears to be no constructive contribution to the thread. Please consider removing the comment and this one as it would be a shame to see this thread hijacked for this kind of purpose.
# Chris Charles
Saturday, February 19, 2011 9:19 AM
phentermine: - Nobody's asleep at the wheel, this is a very deliberate act by the Fabians within the ALP to deliberately disassemble this nation and bring it to its knees. Don't make the error in judgement that this somehow is simply political incompetence. This is a purposeful UN led agenda that is being carried out around the world in an effort to destabilise or remove national governments and introduce a one world government by stealth. It was nearly achieved at Copenhagen in 2009 under the guise of climate change treaty which is another successful rouge being used to achieve global unification.

Here's a classic example of this destabilization programme at work quite recently:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/resist-protectionism-julia-gillard-urges-leaders-at-g20-summit-in-seoul/story-fn59niix-1225952702862

Why would the Australian PM be urging anyone to drop protectionism in favour of globalisation when it has cost this country so much in terms of manufacturing capacity and agricultural land? The potential of this country is diminishing every day as machinery , businesses and industries are being shipped off overseas. And once those things are gone, they are gone for good. Australia is now effectively just a quarry for China. There is no 'level playing field'.

We are also now nett importers of food which means we cannot feed ourselves without assistance from imported foods. This is a very dangerous situation for a nation to deliberately put itself in. The easiest way for a nation to be coerced into agreeing to something unpalatable is to cut off it's food supplies. As Albert Einstein said, "An empty stomach is not a good political advisor."

China is buying up vast tracts of land in our mining and agricultural regions right under the nose of this government (and the previous Liberal government) and nobody even blinks an eyelid to stop it.

The Daily Telegraph reported that China had bought up over $2 billion dollars worth of agricultural land and assets in Australia. This seemed to coincide beautifully with the agreement to release more water down through the Murray Darling despite our own farmers cries for over 30 years to no avail. Jut when they had given up, walked off their land, sold it for a pittance, in come the Chinese investors (read : 'Chinese Communist Party funded companies') and snaffle up our land for cents on the dollar - and the water miraculously goes back on.

The only people 'asleep at the wheel' as you put it, phentermine, is the Australian public at large. Has been for years. Too busy watching footy or cricket on their plasma teles, and drinking p!ss to bother taking an interest in what's going on and what's been taken from them. The last 2.5 generations of this country's population haven't seen a war and haven't had to fight for anything. They've had it too good for too long and don't know what hardship means. I have a feeling they are about to find out.
# Chris Charles
Saturday, February 19, 2011 9:31 AM
Correction: Sorry, I wrote, "The Daily Telegraph reported that China had bought up over $2 billion dollars worth of agricultural land and assets in Australia."

I meant to write: China has bought up over $9 billion worth of agricultural land and assets in Australia over the last 2 years"

This BTW, is simply what the Telegraph has been able to establish. I'd bet it's a lot more than that figure, particularly if you go back a decade.

Here's the article for anyone who could be bothered reading it:

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/business/foreign-farm-raiders-buy-9bn-of-aussie/story-e6frez7r-1225953501132
# Chris Charles
Saturday, February 19, 2011 9:39 AM
SMH ARTICLE: "Unite for free trade, Gillard tells G20 leaders"

"JULIA GILLARD has urged her fellow world leaders to display ''maximum unity'' against a rising tide of protectionist sentiment and civil unrest as the developed and developing world recovers from the global financial crisis.

The Group of 20 leaders agreed to an anti-protectionist and pro-free trade stance in the communique released after yesterday's summit in South Korea, but Ms Gillard urged vigilance over the next several years.

The leaders also took a step towards ending the currency wars which has led to accusations of currency manipulation between G20 nations.

Advertisement: Story continues below
On Thursday night and again yesterday, Ms Gillard told the leaders, including the US President, Barack Obama, and the Chinese President, Hu Jintao, that G20 nations had resisted protectionism during the crisis, but as the world recovered, protectionist pressures and civil unrest would increase.

''Sluggish growth, high unemployment, dramatic budget cuts … is a recipe for rising protectionist sentiment and we can't afford to have it break out.'' "

Source: http://www.smh.com.au/world/unite-for-free-trade-gillard-tells-g20-leaders-20101112-17r7z.html
# jared
Saturday, March 26, 2011 10:41 AM
BARNABY JOYCE: "If anybody says, well you know they [racists] shouldn't say this, well they actually are there to kill them. And if we've got a problem with that or if you want a true understanding of their position, go swap with them for a while. Sign up, get yourself a uniform and go over."

Barnaby Joyce, you're a racist who is defending otherracists. Shame on you!

# Moshe Pleshet
Sunday, May 29, 2011 11:17 PM
Dear Mr Joyce,

You are very misguided in your assertion that Ms Blanchett is supporting the Carbon Tax because she has all those million you're so obssesed with; she is favour of it because she is a progressive woman and understands that inaction on climate change is a short sighted and politically driven attitude!

I urge you and your leader to desist from spreading misinformation and using scare tactics to sway public opinion, you are causing enormous damage to the reputation and future prosperity of this country.
# Chris Charles
Monday, May 30, 2011 2:35 PM

Moshe Pleshet - Hah! That's rich!!!

For your information, the reputation and future prosperity in the form of vast tracts of prime Australian mining and agricultural land which have already been sold on down the road to the Chinese Communist government by the same ill-intentioned government that wants to introduce this economically disastrous Carbon Tax.

You have made a fatal mistake in believing the propaganda fed to the moronic masses by the UN and it's puppet show the IPCC that CO2 = man made global warming... err... climate change without realising that it is just one huge hoax to make the rich even richer by cash stripping the working class with yet another tax.

Do your reading fool before you post again. Here, have a look at some of these enlightened and respected scientists and industry experts and what they have to say. And when you get through listening to the opinions of men much wiser than either you or I, pass it on to some of your similarly misled friends so that they may be enlightened too.

John Coleman - Founder of the Weather Channel (Meteorologist)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm4_radxpvk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O82w8dBoNkA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8FhmuWWcGw

Lord Christopher Monckton
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMe5dOgbu40
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z00L2uNAFw8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K21amuBJcoE&feature=related

Petition Project - 31,000 Scientists (9,000 Ph.D's) REJECT Man Made Climate Change - http://petitionproject.org/

Professor William Sprigg Ph.D - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4V-vrT-HW8&feature=related

Professor Arthur Robinson Ph.D - http://www.newswithviews.com/Robinson/art5.htm

The UN's IPCC is an organisation that has been set up to create an illusion to the public that there is a big problem and only the UN can fix it. It has been stacked with 600 scientists that have ignored proper scientific peer review processes and have spread lies and misinformation to the public. These men are more interested in lining their own pockets than telling the truth or saving the planet.

People need to WAKE UP to what an enormous lie they have been told. You could start by telling Cate. She really needs to know.
# Chris Charles
Monday, May 30, 2011 9:16 PM
ETS is another tax.
Here's a practical way to understand Julia Gillard Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme.
Imagine 1 kilometre of atmosphere and we want to get rid of the carbon pollution in it created by human activity. Let's go for a walk along it.

The first 770 metres are Nitrogen.
The next 210 metres are Oxygen.
That's 980 metres of the 1 kilometre.
20 metres to go.
The next 10 metres are water vapour.
10 metres left.
9 metres are argon.
Just 1 more metre.
A few gases make up the first bit of that last metre.
The last 38 centimetres of the kilometre - that's carbon dioxide.
A bit over one foot. 97% of that is produced by Mother Nature. It’s natural. Out of our journey of one kilometre, there are just 12 millimetres left.
Just over a centimetre - about half an inch.
That’s the amount of carbon dioxide that global human activity puts into the atmosphere.
And of those 12 millimetres, Australia puts in .18 of a millimetre.
Less than the thickness of a hair.
Out of a kilometre!
As a hair is to a kilometre - so is Australia 's contribution to what Julia Gillard calls Carbon Pollution.
Imagine Brisbane 's new Gateway Bridge , ready to be opened by Julia Gillard. It's been polished, painted and scrubbed by an army of workers till its 1 kilometre length is surgically clean. Except that Julia Gillard says we have a huge problem, the bridge is polluted - there's a human hair on the roadway. We'd laugh ourselves silly.

There are plenty of real pollution problems to worry about. It's hard to imagine that Australia 's contribution to carbon dioxide in the world's atmosphere is one of the more pressing ones. And I can't believe that a new tax on everything is the only way to blow that pesky hair away.
# Marian Harris
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 7:35 PM
Please do everything you can to stop anymore of Australia being sold off overseas. It has already gone too far and one can't help wondering why nothing has been done.

Please save Australia from foreign investors.

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