Senator JOYCE—I want to refer you to Petrol prices and Australian consumers: report of the ACCC inquiry into the price of unleaded petrol, December 2007, in which it is stated:

Informed Sources said that they had performed an analysis of the average price in Perth before and after the introduction of Fuelwatch, at the time of the introduction of Fuelwatch. They said this analysis indicated that the introduction of the Fuelwatch process in Western Australia increased petrol prices in Western Australia by an average of 1c to 1.5c a litre.

On the premise that you use the Western Australian model as the reason that Fuelwatch works, what are your views on that statement, seeing you also use the ACCC as your raison d’etre for all your decisions these days?

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Senator Carr—I would suggest that you take that matter up with the Treasury officials. These are matters of public debate. The ACCC has done further econometric modelling and has made a public statement, which I have seen.

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Senator JOYCE—Do you disregard that statement or do you think that statement made by the ACCC is incorrect, or it has changed over time?

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Senator Carr—If you have got questions to the ACCC, I suggest you take them up with them.

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Senator JOYCE—I will go to something more specific seeing you have an interest in fuel. Since fuel is a major component of price, what price do you believe fuel can go to before we start heading towards a recession? You must have some idea about that?

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Senator Carr—I will surprise you here, I suggest that they are not matters that we can speculate on.

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Senator JOYCE—Do you think fuel can just go up ad infinitum and it will make no difference, or do you think we are getting close?

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Senator Carr—These are matters of opinion and I cannot see what part of any portfolio responsibilities I would have that would lead me to speculate on fuel prices.

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Senator JOYCE—Surely it is absolutely crucial to what you do? It should be fundamental in the planning of industry that you should have some tolerance and some matrix about fuel prices—

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Senator Carr—This is not a matter for the budget estimates, I might suggest to you. This is a matter of political debate. I guess your opinion can be taken as the way in which you describe it.

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Senator JOYCE—I am more inclined to find out if you have an opinion.

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CHAIR—I think the minister has expressed his views pretty clearly.

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Senator JOYCE—He has not, actually. To finish off, in the budget Estimates, what is your plan? You either have a plan to increase supply or reduce demand if you are going to somehow affect the price of fuel. Can you enlighten us on either side of those issues what your plan is?

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Senator Carr—That is not part of my responsibility. Fuel policy is another portfolio.

Senator JOYCE—In regard to you statement of support for the Australian car industry and your discussions about innovation, is the Toyota Prius that is painted white with a Z-plate on it parked at the front of the Senate entrance a fully imported vehicle or is it an Australian-made vehicle?

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Senator Carr—Yes, it is a fully imported vehicle.

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Senator JOYCE—Why are we buying a fully imported vehicle when you are espousing belief in the Australian car industry?

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Senator Carr—Because a number of senators, a number of members of parliament and a number of government agencies have sought exemptions from the current procurement requirements.

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Senator JOYCE—We could lose all the Australian produced vehicles and just replace them with these imported Japanese vehicles—

Senator JOYCE—I have a question. What are you doing there, Senator Conroy?

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Senator Conroy—I am not sure that has anything to do with the estimates.

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Senator JOYCE—It has nothing to do with estimates?

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Senator Conroy—I am not sure your question has anything to do with estimates.

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CHAIR—Senator Coonan.

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Senator COONAN—I have a few questions—

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Senator JOYCE—Just for the record, what he is doing there has nothing to do with estimates.

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Senator Conroy—No, I said your question has nothing to do with estimates.

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Senator JOYCE—What you are doing there has nothing to do with estimates. I think you are treating estimates with complete contempt.

Senator JOYCE—There is a question that I was going to ask. Can you please define the Labor Party’s concept of ‘luxury’?

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Senator Conroy—The statement contained in Budget Paper No. 1 clearly explains itself, but I will read it again for you Senator Joyce, seeing as you have interjected on the answer that I was giving Senator Abetz. It says:

The Government believes that Australians who can afford luxury vehicles have the capacity to contribute to revenue at a higher rate than other car buyers.

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Senator JOYCE—The question is quite specific. What is ‘luxury’? Is it having a butler?

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Senator Conroy—In 2000 the luxury car tax was introduced by—no prizes for guessing, Senator Joyce; you probably even voted for it in the Senate—you to ensure the price of luxury cars fell by about the same amount as the price of cars just under the LCT threshold following the removal of the wholesale sales tax.

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Senator JOYCE—You failed to answer the question.

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Senator Conroy—The LCT, which you introduced, currently applies to cars that have a GST inclusive price over $57,000. You defined that.

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Senator ABETZ—I am only talking about the increase.

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Senator Conroy—The tax applies to the GST exclusive value—

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Senator ABETZ—You cannot answer the question.

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Senator Conroy—My apologies that Senator Joyce has jumped in to interrupt your questions.

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Senator JOYCE—What are the attributes of ‘luxury’?

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Senator Conroy—The same attributes as the attributes that you defined when you were a minister and when you set the price at $57,000.

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Senator JOYCE—Can you table one attribute of ‘luxury’?

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Senator Conroy—You must know what they were because you voted for them.

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Senator JOYCE—You are the government. Can you table one?

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CHAIR—Senator Joyce, can we get back to Senator Abetz’s question please?

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Senator JOYCE—You would prefer to go back because he cannot name one.

CHAIR—Senator Joyce, was yours on the luxury car tax.

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Senator JOYCE—No, just answers to questions.

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CHAIR—You have one question on that?

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Senator