Reporter: ……the Mining Tax?
JOYCE: Yes, it’s obviously another tax for a government that's $215 billion in gross debt. Another tax for a government that's now only $35 billion away from an extended limit which was an extension on an extension on an extension. Another tax basically to deal with the issue that the Labor party can't make their revenues meet their expenses.
Week after week we are borrowing billions of dollars from overseas and of course sooner or later despite everything else, despite the carbon tax and despite all the other fiascos this debt will be like a cancer. It's just growing and growing and growing. People say don't worry about it, but you're going to worry about it in the end because you're going to have to pay it back .How you pay it back is becoming a bit of a mystery to me. You'll pay it back, all we'll do here is administrate it and the Australian taxpayers will have to reach into their pocket because the people we've borrowed this money off are real people and they really want it back.
What I can also say on the mining tax -I hear that Mr Windsor now is making caveats on the mining tax to deal with coal seam gas issues. He will be surprised to know that I support him. If he can make a difference in his position as a vital member of the Labor-Green-Independent government to change coal seam gas then he should do that. I also see how Mr Wilkie is working and puts his money where his mouth is, well if he doesn't get what he believes is important he is willing to put the government on the line and maybe Mr Windsor is prepared to do that as well with coal seam gas.
My issue, I listened to Mr Windsor last night on gas, he obviously has big issues with me, that is his right, but I hope we keep our energy focused on dealing with coal seam gas not on each other.
Reporter: are you confident the government will listen to Mr Windsor’s call for a portion of the mining tax to go to research into CSG?
JOYCE: You know I hope that the government listens to the issue that coal seam gas is a major issue. It is not being dealt with appropriately at the moment. Out there the farmers are getting ripped off. As I've said numerous times we've got to make sure we don't destroy the aquifers, that we do protect prime agricultural land, that we do allow the quiet enjoyment of people in their houses and the farmers get a proper pecuniary return. That's a great base to start from and those people who want to put their shoulder to the wheel to achieve that outcome or they want to go beyond that outcome, good luck to them. That's good.
Reporter: Do you agree with coal seam gas?
JOYCE: I agree that coal seam gas in the appropriate areas certainly is a resource we can exploit. But once more I go back to the key principles. I don't believe in coal seam gas if coal seam gas destroys aquifers because aquifers are common property. It is like saying I have got a resource that is going to destroy the Great Barrier Reef or it is going to destroy the Brisbane River- you just can't do it. The resource is of a higher level. The water is of a higher level.
If you destroy the resource of the aquifer, you'll shut down the whole beef industry in areas, you can create massive problems. This water in many areas is million of years old by the time it comes out of the ground. It is a precious resource. Farmers are not just allowed to put down a bore and take what ever they like out of it, but the coal seam gas operator is. You know, farmers could just about get themselves sent to jail for the actions the CSG operator is allowed to get away with. We are absolutely and utterly controlled how we deal with water. The coal seam gas operator isn’t.
I believe in coal seam gas, but I don't believe in coal seam gas if it destroys prime agricultural land. Prime agricultural land is a resource that has been with us for thousand of years, coal seam gas has been with us for 30 years. Coal seam gas does not feed you. You don't have carrots and peas and coal seam gas on your plate at night so food is of a higher worth, obviously.
I believe in coal seam gas but I also believe that people have the right to go to sleep at night, to get quiet enjoyment in their houses. I believe in coal seam gas but I also believe they should be giving a fair return to the farmers and they know full well that they're not. They know full well that they're not even giving them the crumbs off the table; they're giving them the essence of the crumbs off the table. From the evidence they've given us it's less than 75 cents for every 1000 dollars that they earn. Now this is an asset that was on their place and it's an asset, which in the history of it and I have to correct many people in the Labor party and elsewhere, that in the history of it, they actually owned. It was swindled off them by the Petroleum Act in 1915 and Neville Wran's Act in 1981 in NSW, the 1971 Act in SA, and the 1953 Act in the Territories. Before that coal and gas were the assets of the farmer.
It's also extremely important that we understand what's happened in Greece last night. As I tweeted last night, Greece has now thrown a spanner, two shifters and a pair of wire strainers into the financial mix. This is creating massive uncertainty. Now that Greece is having a referendum, they're having a referendum after being given money. I know that Greece is the home of democracy, but the latitude of the democracy of other people should also come into their decision making process. Now I can't affect the Greeks, they'll do what they want, but what I can say -we should be eyes open in Australia and realise that this is another ingredient in the instability of the global financial markets. Now in a time such as that we should not be borrowing money like there's no tomorrow. At a time like that where we actually have a premium for our resources we should be paying our debt down not blowing it out through the roof.
Just even last week, another $1.7 billion, 2.4 the week before that, 2.1 before that, 2 before that, nothing the week before that, 3.5 before that and we're only 35 billion away from our next ceiling and nobody seems to get it, they all seem to think that everything is fine. But you will get it in the end.
Reporter: What do you think of this business where the government and the Coalition are saying that each other knew about what was happening with Qantas?
JOYCE: Well the last time I checked the Labor Green Independent alliance was the government. It is their responsibility. They are supposed to be running the show. What they every time, every time there's a major fiasco that is under their watch they turn around and say what would you do. Well the first thing I'd do is, if the responsibility was mine, is I would sack them, because they're utterly and completely incompetent.
Now either Mr Alan Joyce and Miss Olivia Worth and others have been coming to this building for weeks and I would suggest its months because they like the coffee and the decor and the wonderful reporters or they believe they had a major problem. Now they're wandering around saying we've got a major problem, we've got a major problem and surprise, surprise the major problem arrives and then the Labor government throws it's hands up and says this is news to us. What else did you want? A telegram from the Queen? Archangel Gabriel to descend through the roof to tell you there might be a slight problem with Qantas? It's just absurd. Everything is of their doing and then Julia Gillard says I don't know about the Act. She wrote the Act. She was the minister responsible for the Act. Who else is responsible? She thought it mightn’t work, well that a fine time to find out about that Julia. How about you found out when you wrote it? And you say, well Julia did you get legal advice, well no she didn't. She did, after the event. This is like calling the doctor for the cadaver. It's hopeless.
Reporter: But the government insists that Qantas didn't ask it to intervene.
JOYCE: So what were they doing here? Just chit chatting? They were obviously here saying we have a problem you have to help, wee need to get through this issue; we need to deal with it. It's quite obvious, there were planes that were being cancelled by reason of engineer issues, there was obviously a mounting problem and for them to say there wasn't, that's the thing you say if you were living in a cave behind Weeabonga, not if you were living in this building dealing with the issues with all the resources at your disposal. It is absolutely absurd, the Qantas issue is a metaphor for this government -totally out of control, parked, a home for swallows no longer flying.
Reporter: That's [mining tax] being introduced in today. There is a suggestion that the government won't get the support it wants even just to pass it in the lower house.
JOYCE: Well, what I have said quite clearly is if Mr Windsor is putting his efforts to dealing with the coal seam gas issue as much as it entertains me to try and provoke him, I don't want to. If he is going somewhere that brings about a better solution for the people then that is exactly what should happen because that is the right thing to do. What I can suggest is that like Mr Wilkie you have immense power Mr Windsor because you are the reason the government is there and I am absolutely certain that if you say if you don't deal with me on this issue I will bring down the government, they will ideal with you on this issue. That is that is what you have always wanted- that is the balance of power.
I just want a better outcome for the people that are being affected by coal seam gas and I know that the people watching this are going to want to make sure that I put every
effort not into attacking Mr Windsor but getting a better outcome for coal seam gas.