INTERVIEW WITH BARNABY JOYCE
DISCUSSION ABOUT THE CRAIG THOMPSON AFFAIR, COAL SEAM GAS, SAME-SEX MARRIAGE
HUGH RIMINTON, PRESENTER: Hello, and welcome to ‘Meet the Press’.
The Gillard Government staggers on, trailing now a bad smell emanating from the Central Coast. The Member for Dobell, Craig Thompson says he is the victim of a sleazy, unethical campaign but he still failed to give a full account of how his union credit card was used to buy the services of prostitutes while he led the health services union before entering Parliament.
MICHAEL RONALDSON, LIBERAL SENATOR (WEDNESDAY): This is a matter that demands the immediate intervention of Australia's Prime Minister. She can run, she can run, but she can no longer hide.
JULIA GILLARD, PRIME MINISTER (WEDNESDAY): I have full confidence in the Member for Dobell.
HUGH RIMINTON: Craig Thompson claims someone forged his signature, though he has never complained about to it police. The Opposition hopes he will resign triggering a by-election they fancy they will win to sweep into power but as Mr Thompson is not a bankrupt and faces no criminal charges, that remains for now just a Coalition fantasy. The nightmare continues for Australian livestock shipped overseas. These images from Turkey.
KELVIN THOMPSON, LABOR MP (EARLIER THIS WEEK): The industry bodies Meat & Livestock Australia and Live Corp have failed to do the job they are paid to do. Their senior people should resign.
HUGH RIMINTON: But not a single Government or Opposition MP supported independent Andrew Wilkie or the Greens Adam Bandt, as they sought to end the live trade.
PROTESTER ANGRY ANDERSON: Maintain the rage!
HUGH RIMINTON: Meanwhile, the Coalition continues to ride and rev up a mood of national discontent.
BARNABY JOYCE, NATIONALS SENATE LEADER (WEDNESDAY): You have to realise this is half time and you are going to go the full game.
HUGH RIMINTON: Nationals Senator leader Barnaby Joyce is a guest today.
I want to ask you firstly, what do you make of the Craig Thomson mess?
BARNABY JOYCE, NATIONALS SENATE LEADER: Well, it is all very unsavoury but we have a month of a whole range of possibilities we got to. One is that a thief broke into Craig's house and he stole Craig's mobile phone, he stole Craig's credit card and he stole driver’s licence. He then managed to operate Craig's mobile phone as he drove to Sydney. When he got to Sydney he presented himself, and this thief looked a lot like Craig Thomson, he then had to vouch for his signature and his signature was a lot like Craig Thomson’s. Then a transaction took place which we will not go into. He then went back up to the Central Coast, broke back into the house and put everything back where he found it. Now, that is one possibility and the other possibility is – and this is a far-fetched one – is Craig Thomson. They’re the two possibilities we’ve got. What really is the issue is not so much what he did – that is between him and his partner and his God, if he’s got one – that is not our business. The issue is that he said he didn’t do it and the Prime Minister says she has full confidence, which must mean she believes the story and there is a big problem.
HUGH RIMINTON: Does this require now a clear statement to the Parliament from the Member from Dobell clearing the air, making plain what took place?
BARNABY JOYCE: I think you do get to a point. I think there will be a big weight off the Member for Dobell's shoulders when he just says, “Look, I'm going to clear everything up here. Think of me what you like, here is the story.” I think that is what is required and I think everybody understands. I think everybody knows what the real story is – let's just get it out, fix it up. Otherwise it sort of drags all politicians down and we don’t want to do that. We are not here to be your friend, guide and philosopher or your priest. It’s not about a moral issue; it’s got nothing to do with that, it’s an issue about when you say something you’re supposed to be telling the truth, that’s it.
HUGH RIMINTON: Now, at what point does this whole business affect the credibility of the Prime Minister herself while she continues to stand by her man?
BARNABY JOYCE: For us, it helps us in the Opposition create the metaphor of “you couldn’t trust her on the carbon tax, you can’t trust them on the surplus” and now they’ve got the statement that she has complete confidence in Craig Thompson. They are really making life for us easier when they do this. The last one is the one we really do not want to discuss so they should just deal with that, get it out of the way and go back because everybody doesn’t like it. It leaves a bad taste in everybody's mouth which is why we’re a bit reticent about it because it’s just one of those things we say – we don’t want this sort of personal stuff coming in. The only reason it is there is because of the statement that’s made and it’s seeming highly implausible, almost totally implausible, but I don’t know, miracles do happen.
HUGH RIMINTON: OK. Let’s go to some other issues around, particularly one close to your heart, coal seam gas. Will you be supporting the Greens’ private members’ bill, Senator Waters’ private members bill when she brings it to the Senate this week?
BARNABY JOYCE: I haven’t seen the bill. The other day they wrote a letter to me, I’ve invited the Greens to visit me next week and I think they were highly surprised I afforded that invitation to them. They put this bill up, Hugh, but they’ve never actually lobbied us, they’ve never actually turned up. And as you know, when you make a statement to every media outlet but don’t actually try to collect the votes, it’s called a wedge. Now I just heard Senator Sarah Hanson-Young on another program, ‘The Insiders’ about whether they were going to support Andrew Wilkie's gambling reforms and she said, “You have to get everybody on the same page if you have a chance of getting anything through.” Well, I might actually put that back to Sarah Hanson-Young and say, ‘what efforts have you made to get everybody on the same page? Who have you talked to?’ Now Hugh, we have an inquiry going at the moment, it will report at the end of this year. The extension of the terms was something that I was responsible for. It is looking at coal seam gas. It’s had meetings in Roma, in Dalby, in Narrabri, its chair is Bill Heffernan, he is doing a good job as the only way Bill does it. This will give us the chance to get people on the same page.
HUGH RIMINTON: On another issue because we have so much to cover with you. You raised your four daughters this past week on the matter of same-sex marriage. You mentioned them. Here is what you had to say.
BARNABY JOYCE, NATIONALS SENATE LEADER (TUESDAY): We know that the best protection for those girls is if they get themselves into a secure relationship with a loving husband and I want that to happen for them and I don’t want any legislator to take that right away from them.
HUGH RIMINTON: I have to say, it’d be no surprise to you that we get more calls and Twitter messages etc on this subject than any other one. I guess the vexing question here is how does same-sex marriage affect the capacity of your daughters to meet a fellow and marry and settle down?
BARNABY JOYCE: You know, what I want is for my family is my own sort of belief structure as a spouse because if I think it is good enough for me, I suppose it is good enough for others. I just want a sense of stability but that is my belief structure not somebody else’s, I acknowledge that. What I can say though, same-sex is an oxymoronic term, a marriage is between a man and woman. As I have said before, it is like saying, ‘I have a four-wheel bicycle.’ It is fine if it has four wheels but it’s just not a bicycle.
HUGH RIMINTON: You say you have your own beliefs and that is where you come from, but you in the rare and privileged position of being able to assert those beliefs across a wider population. Do you feel in any way, that you are depriving fellow Australians by your position, from having what your daughters might aspire to, and that is a recognised marital state?
BARNABY JOYCE: Well, it can be recognised, but it’s not a marriage. This is an issue where others on the other side here will be vociferously pursuing their course. I’m supporting the people who want to keep marriage between a man and a woman. The debate is on. I'm not saying they’re any lesser or better person than me. I'm clearly stating a principle that I think reflects the wider constituency that I represent. Not only do I have a right but an obligation to try and pursue it. It is not saying that people are better or worse, it is just a factual statement. This is black, this is white, this is four people, two people, this is a marriage and where does the term ‘marriage’ come from? Well, it was “the marriage of a man and a woman at the exclusion of others”. We give it our best shot and we see how we go. I understand a number of them fall apart but that’s not what the discussion is about.
HUGH RIMINTON: OK, we’ll take a break now Senator Joyce and return with the panel. We have not finished with Barnaby.. He wins our ‘Play of the Week’.
BARNABY JOYCE, NATIONALS SENATE LEADER (TUESDAY): Today we have a hat here; it’s a beautiful hat that sits on top of Bob's (Katter’s) head. It has a good pedigree, its come all the way from Bob’s head. Ladies and gentleman, are we going to open a bid? I would like to see the opening bid; I’ll take a bid from anywhere?
BIDDER: $1,000!
BARNABY JOYCE: I’ll take $1,000, a thousand, thousand, thousand. Do we have another bid, a thousand, thousand. (MUSIC FADE)
SEGMENT TWO:
HUGH RIMINTON: Welcome back, this is ‘Meet the Press’. Our guest is Senator Barnaby Joyce, Leader of the Nationals in the Senate. Welcome now to our panel, Michelle Grattan from ‘The Age’ and Steve Lewis from News Limited. Good morning, both of you.
MICHELLE GRATTAN, ‘THE AGE’: Senator Joyce, the Opposition is repeatedly calling for the Government to go to an early election so clearly you must have thought through your own future. You’ve raised the possibility of running against Tony Windsor – is that your intention?
BARNABY JOYCE: Well, Michelle, I definitely have the intention of going to the Lower House. Obviously I'm from Queensland and people would prefer that I stay in Queensland. If that possibility is not available, then I'm prepared to stand in New England but it is the right of the Electorate Council to make that decision on all accounts. So in seats in Queensland it is the right of those electoral councils, in New England it’s the right of theirs. What I'm always circumspect about Michelle, is saying, ‘I want the stand in seat A’ because that electorate council will say, ‘because you think you are so smart that you can say that without letting us make the decision first you are just the person we do not want.’ And that’s what happens. Hubris gets ahead of you, and you’ll get chopped off at the knees. So, I’ll let the Electorate Council make the decision but I’m quite open, I want to go to the Lower House.
MICHELLE GRATTAN: Even taking into account you want to be low-key and discreet about this, do you think that there is reasonable possibility of Bruce Scott standing aside in the coming election?
BARNABY JOYCE: That is a question obviously for Bruce and we have to wait for those sorts of issues to transpire. I'm not here to answer for Bruce, nor am I here to answer for the Electorate Council, nor am I here to answer for the New England Electorate Council. Those people can make their decision and I'm sure they will. I will sit quietly by and keep working as hard as I can in the job I do.
STEVE LEWIS, NEWS LIMITED: Senator Joyce, you are an ambitious gentleman as you have just outlined. When you get to the Lower House would it be your expectation that you would take over as Nationals Leader?
BARNABY JOYCE: No, it’s not Steve. Now, I don’t know what the problem is with ambition –
STEVE LEWIS: Nothing at all.
BARNABY JOYCE: …Do you want me to be upfront or do you want me to pull your leg? The issue is even in that case, I truly believe that Warren is extremely proficient in what he does, he is the safest set of hands in Canberra and I genuinely have no interests in ever challenging the leader. It is not the way the National Party works.
STEVE LEWIS: Senator Joyce, you have ruffled some feathers with some of your Liberal colleagues. Steve Ciobo, the Member for Moncrieff, made some comments at a Party room meeting the other day raising concerns about a lack of discipline and in particular, your recent comments in relation to the US default and that. Is it two sets of rules in the Coalition, one for Liberal MPs and others for Nationals such as yourself?
BARNABY JOYCE: No, they are two different parties but that is the way it works. They work in a tight business relationship which has been the most successful in post-war Australia but I saw Steve the other night, he came over and said ‘g’day’. There was no animosity there. We had a very short and polite discussion. People are always looking for division. It doesn’t really concern me. The issue that I brought up obviously, was one a number of years ago. I stated quite clearly that America's position was precarious, distant and real, that they may get closer to default. They got to within 10 hours of it, Steve. And now all the pundits who derided me at the time are now being sought again for their own opinions as to how that came about. I did not think it was such a remarkable statement at the time, Steve. There was a fixed ceiling and a line which was a trajectory heading towards it, it didn’t seem too unusual that line A would intersect line B.
MICHELLE GRATTAN: You used to be finance spokesman and you often speak out on finance questions. The opposition is looking for up to $70 billion in cuts, we hear. Isn't this a pretty unrealistic figure and given its history of having a few black holes in its costings, can people be expected to believe that you could find so much?
BARNABY JOYCE: What we are doing to that purpose obviously, is going through the ERC process, line by line, looking at every possibility. It’s in its formative stage. We wouldn’t be so bold as to suggest that we can now lift everything for it but prior to the election we will obviously put forward our costings then. You remember, as you know, we do not have the resources that the Government has with the Treasury Department. There should have been – we are looking for a new form of public body to support and assist in our costings. But it really is, we have to go through to the collegiate atmosphere of the people there to come up with the costings that the Labor Party has the whole Treasury Department to deal with. We will get to that point, though, it will come about. What I can say is ...
MICHELLE GRATTAN: Maybe you should be spending less though. Maybe that’s the answer, that the Opposition doesn’t put forward such generous programs like the parental leave scheme?
BARNABY JOYCE: That’s a barb that could be easily thrown back at the Labor Party, remember? They’re the ones that had the surplus – it was locked in – and now it’s an objective and they’re the ones that gave us the ceiling hall insulation, they’re the ones that have given us the biggest debt in the history of our nation, currently heading towards $200 billion. They’re the ones who have given us the biggest deficits in the nation's history. These are the issues that have brought us to this position where we’ve had to extend our debt ceiling to a quarter of a trillion dollars.
STEVE LEWIS: Senator Joyce, when I go to buy fruit for my family, I can buy navel oranges from California, I can buy dates from the Middle East. What is wrong with buying apples from New Zealand?
BARNABY JOYCE: Well, nothing at all, Steve, except if it brings in fire blight and decimates our pear industry and sections of our apple industry.
STEVE LEWIS: But isn't that an argument being put forward by the industry, supported by the Nationals? Isn't this just another form of protectionism?
BARNABY JOYCE: Absolutely not, Steve. What we’ve seen in a more temperate environment, which Australia is, there is the capacity for fire blight to come in. What we do sell in our nation is a clean, green image. We’ve had, Steve, 600 tonnes of soil picked up from a farm in China, managed to be landed on the docks in Sydney. Got through quarantine, all cleared, then they sent a tonne or a half of it up the country to Condobolin. The farmer opens it up and says, ‘Mate, this is not diammonium phosphate, this is soil.” It’s sort of like a Craig Thomson analogy, really. We are worried about what will happen to our clean, green image because we don’t have inspectors in New Zealand checking the farms; it is sort of a self-regulation. The New Zealanders do have inspectors in Australia checking Australian grape farms and Australia does have inspectors in China checking the farms. It’s just a lack of protocol which means the disease will come in.
MICHELLE GRATTAN: What happens if it puts us in breach of international trade rules?
BARNABY JOYCE: It is a discussion for the WTO. I’d say New Zealand itself, as we speak, Michelle, is before the WTO on pork. It is not unusual for there to be these discussions but we must maintain one of the greatest attributes Australia has which is its clean, green image.
HUGH RIMINTON: Senator Joyce, thank you very much for joining us on ‘Meet the Press’.
BARNABY JOYCE: Thanks very much, Hugh, for having me on the show.