LEGAL AND CONSTITUTIONAL REFERENCES COMMITTEE

Administration and operation of the Migration Act 1958

Senator FIERRAVANTI-WELLS—If you can provide me with some information about the mental health screening, assessment and procedures that are involved at Baxter and the other detention facilities, and the sorts of changes that may have been implemented as well as any consultation or liaison arrangements that have been made with DIMIA in terms of strategic planning. I would also like some information on the timing for this, given the environmental change that is now happening, and the reasons why that has perhaps taken a little bit longer than was anticipated.

CHAIR—Mr Olszak, you will get a copy of the Hansard, so all that flow-on from that question will be in there. I see you busy, trying to write it all down in shorthand, but you will actually get the Hansard that will cover that question that you have taken on notice.

Mr Olszak—Thank you.

CHAIR—Senator Joyce?

Senator JOYCE—Thank you, Chair. To the best of your knowledge, the people in your camps, your detention centres, arrived illegally in Australia—that would be correct, wouldn’t it?

CHAIR—They are not actually GSL’s detention centres.

Senator JOYCE—The people that you deal with would have arrived illegally? Would that be correct?

Mr Williams—These days, most of them have not arrived illegally; they entered legally but have overstayed visas or had visas cancelled.

Senator JOYCE—Right. But they are illegal?

Mr Williams—Yes, that is right.

Senator JOYCE—They have the option to go back overseas, don’t they?

Mr Williams—Each person can make their own choice, yes.

Senator JOYCE—If they wished to go, they could. But they choose to stay, basically, don’t they? So they are only in detention because they choose to be there; they have the option to head back overseas.

Mr Williams—Yes, some can leave; some are pursuing litigation.

Senator JOYCE—Fine. So they are there of their own volition. Is there any corporal punishment? You don’t deal out any corporal punishment in your camps—in your detention centres, do you?

Mr Williams—No.

Senator JOYCE—No capital punishment—you haven’t killed anyone yet, have you?

Mr Olszak—No.

Mr Williams—No.

Senator JOYCE—Right. So it must be hard at times to maintain discipline amongst a whole heap of people who do not want to go but are illegal? It must be hard to maintain discipline.

Mr Williams—It is probably one of the most difficult parts of the job.

Senator JOYCE—So you would be using whatever methods you can that do not involve corporal punishment or capital punishment to do that, including encouragements such as $1 an hour for merit points?

Mr Olszak—I think it is a little more along the lines of our officers having a positive relationship—

Senator JOYCE—It builds up a sense of trust—

Mr Olszak—Yes.

Senator JOYCE—and it builds up a working relationship. Do you plan for a work force employed out of this $1 an hour?

Mr Olszak—No.

Senator JOYCE—In your budgets, do you plan for a whole range of people, a bevy of people, to be out there washing socks—

Mr Olszak—No. Could I also say—

Senator JOYCE—and doing dishes?

Mr Olszak—Could I also say that this was a system in place—

Senator JOYCE—It has been around for a while.

Mr Olszak—prior to us taking over the contract.

Senator JOYCE—And they are happy to do the work?

Mr Olszak—We would have serious issues if we tried to remove it.

Senator JOYCE—They are happy to do the work, basically. And what do you provide them with in these camps, where they choose to be? Do you provide them with meals a day, dental health, psychiatric help—is that all part of the deal?

Mr Olszak—Yes, we have a duty of care that encompasses all those things that you have mentioned.

Senator JOYCE—To the best of your knowledge—

CHAIR—Senator Joyce.

Senator JOYCE—in the countries where they come from—

CHAIR—Sorry, Senator Joyce—

Talk
Senator JOYCE—do they have those facilities available?

CHAIR—Senator Joyce, you did not come with us to Villawood, did you?

Senator JOYCE—Beg your pardon?

CHAIR—You were not with this committee when we got a tour of Villawood, did you?

Senator JOYCE—I know Villawood.

CHAIR—But you did not come with this committee when we went to Villawood, did you?

Senator JOYCE—Why? Why is that relevant?

CHAIR—I am just, for the purposes of—

Senator JOYCE—Why is that relevant?

Talk
CHAIR—For the purposes of GSL, I think they—

Senator JOYCE—If you are asking me the question, Madam Chair—

CHAIR—should know—

Senator JOYCE—have I been to Villawood, the answer is yes. Have I been to Villawood with you? The answer is no.

CHAIR—The question was whether you had been with this committee.

Senator JOYCE—No.

CHAIR—The answer is no. Thank you.

Senator JOYCE—Let’s just put it on the record: I have been to Villawood, but I have not been with you.

CHAIR—No, with this committee, the question was.

Senator JOYCE—Anyway, what are the key performance indicators for a detention centre; what do you think they are?

Mr Olszak—We have over 200 detention standards under the contract. In terms of KPIs that we say are important, it is obviously the overall duty of care to the people that we have to look after.
Senator JOYCE—The duty of care, that would be a fair thing. Have you had any deaths in your detention centre—unnatural deaths?

Mr Olszak—No.

Senator JOYCE—Any suicides?

Mr Olszak—Not successful.